‘I won’t be employing women with children again’

[Everhopefulhev]

AIBU in feeling really wound up by this comment?
I’ve just had to quit my new job as my childcare arrangement fell through which is shit for my employer because obviously they could do without having to find someone else. However, whilst talking to my current boss he said ‘I won’t be employing women with children again’ and told me not to take it personally or think he’s a dick for saying it.
Is this just an example of the problems women face in the workplace? Just because I didn’t work out for them they are disqualifying any further woman with a child?
I just find this type of thing infuriating.

@treeworries

These threads are always so depressing. So many posters unable to see why comments like that are not ok

No, we see. We just also understand why these comments are made. Kinda like yeah, we understand why the weed industry is bad, but at the same time, we understand the benefits.

OP, what he said to you was outrageous. I wonder how he plans to implement his discrimination. Arsehole.
I'm sorry you're having a hard time.

It's funny how, throughout these posts, it's somehow still the women's fault if fathers turn out to be useless, feckless, narcissistic, abusive cunts. We can't blame the men can we. Blame the woman for having a kid with them, even though it's very well documented that men tend to become abusive during pregnancy when the woman is at her 'weakest'; consistently ramping it up from then.

The ingrained misogyny in these posts is horrendous and incredibly ironic coming from people preaching about how 'dads should just step up'.
'The old childcare thing' indeed.

It's not just male managers.

I've just a accepted a perm part time role as I'm back homeschooling for the foreseeable (Melbourne) and finished up at my full time full-on contract role.

My female manager of contract role asked me why I was taking a step back in my career and said I needed to be brave, I'd find another perm role when my contract role finished in 6 months 🙄

I know I'm stepping back, taking less money but, I need to do this for my DC. I've always worked ft and juggled everything.

I no longer want to do that.

yeah that's not the same

oh quote fail

NRTFT

But I am being "managed out" by someone with the same attitude

@SimonJT why did you tell your child’s school that his father’s cousin was his aunt?

@Waveysnail

Small firms I can see the point. Relative deliberately only employs woman over the age of 50+ as less likely to.have childcare problems

You say it’s a big corporate OP. Have you actually left yet?

If not, ask for an exit interview and tell HR what he said.

Sorry, did not mean to include that quote in my post above.

Years ago I had my own business and had got to the point where I needed and could just about afford to employ somebody else. Within a year she was pregnant and the associated costs crippled me. It's an awful situation but I can see how it would make people wary.

Stunned at the number of posters who appear to be blaming women for 'choosing' bad partners. Why isn't the vitriol pointed towards the men? Don't single mothers have enough to contend with?

This is the first time I've actually had to consider that being a single parent is my own fault.

I'm also amazed at the massive assumptions posters have made about the reason OP is having childcare issues. Has mumsnet been invaded by woman haters?

Pretty sure if women had the option to leave pregnancy and childcare to a man they'd consider it when it comes to assessing their career and I'm damn sure there'd be a lot more equality in the workplace if babies could get their nutrition and bonding with a man.

When I met my ex he had a good job, his own house and a car and he was happy. Soon as my child was born the arguments over raising her started, he had no job, is living in a 3 bed house by himself paid for by the council and he's been on permanent sick leave with mental health issues for years and cadges money off me and his parents constantly.

Really, that's my fault? I should have seen that coming?

@treeworries

oh quote fail

Who were you trying to quote?

One thing I believe should be arranged between couples - and I realise will be probably rarer than rocking horse shit - is that they take equal responsibility in the children! And yes, from what I read on Mumsnet, this is very rare.
The cost of childcare should be taken from BOTH salaries.
If parents are no longer together, the NRP should be made to stump up 50% childcare costs as well as maintenance - it's in the NRP's best interests as it means the children will get a more financially stable life.
Obviously this rarely happens and it's more like the childcare costs & majority of caring falls on the mother. Very sad.

@ivfdreaming You should have told your ex partner to stump up the extra cost

What would be the point of that? You're very clearly not a single parent! A lot of us do not have contact with our ex DP / DH (how do you know it's not an ex husband? Stereotyping much!)

Mine is dead

The misogyny exhibited on this thread makes for pretty depressing reading.

OP, caught between a rock and a hard place, hands in her notice in anticipation of a childcare issue. To be told by some posters that she should go back in time and find someone better to procreate with, and what does she expect when women everywhere are abusing the "privilege" of carers' leave?! The mind boggles.

@SimonJTwhy did you tell your child’s school that his father’s cousin was his aunt?

Maybe the technically correct term, "first cousin once removed" wouldn't fit in the relevant box?

*It's definitely an issue women face in the workplace

However I can see why, smaller businesses especially would avoid hiring women with children or those likely to be having families soon. It's costly to replace staff, train them, invest in them, then they take maternity leave and you need to find a replacement, train them. Keep a role available for your member of staff who is on Mat leave and they might not come back.*

^ I agree with this

It sucks. But it makes sense. And I am saying that as a mum with kids. It's wrong though, but I get it from an employers perspective. You invest so much in a person and then they leave because :kids. Shit.

Maybe it is time to Start up your own company. Women only :p and a daycare facility at work :)

This is why I like NHS- so many female consultants with children. They can be flexible with this but it is still a burden.

No it doesn't make sense. The only way it makes sense is if you are willing to sacrifice long term benefit for short term gain. On the larger scale, how much sense does it make to limit your hiring to the education and talents of only half the available workforce?

The world of paid employment would be a completely different place if fathers took paternity leave.

[quote CheetasOnFajitas]@SimonJT why did you tell your child’s school that his father’s cousin was his aunt?[/quote]
Thats what we call her, do you have four year olds refer to relatives as “first cousin once removed name”?

Why is it as soon someone posts others start questioning every t hi. Why didn't OP have childcare, why doesn't ex p step up. Why didn't she go part time. And then the ultimate why didn't OP make her ex step up and why do us women not do this. Why is it our collective responsibility to make those fathers step up who don't? Always on us and our fault what ever.

TBH I can see why small companies would take this attitude. Whilst a lot of parents have very little time off due to child care issues, there are also a lot that do. I’m seeing this first hand during Covid, although it happened quite a lot too pre lockdown. I work for a large company so we can pick up the slack, but small companies not so much. I know myself when my DCs were little I had to take lots of time off as one of my DCs picked up every illness and virus there was, so I often had to call work at short notice. Obviously it was outside of my control, but I can still see why a boss of a small company would be reluctant to employ mums with young DCs.

There's no point using Scandinavia as an example of what should happen here. Scandinavians pay enormous taxes in comparison and whilst some UK voters may say they'd be happy with that, we know that no party that runs on a manifesto of significant tax increases ever wins here.

That sucks, OP. Is there any chance at all of alternative childcare? Also i think it would be a good idea to call HR (assuming you have one since it's a big company) and tell them what happened. See how they react.

The employment of women is a huge problem area but as long as the UK keeps voting in governments that simply don't care and nobody (ie the government) is forcing companies and society to cut the sexist crap this will continue.

I have a list as long as my arm of interviews i've been to where the illegal questions have been asked (I'm not in the UK). Some i have simply walked out of with a "this isn't going to be a good fit", some i have asked them wtf they're thinking of asking me that and had they asked all the men? Twice i got my union involved and once it went to court. It is never fun.

The average, i think, is that most children have 2 parents who are together, single parent families still (probably just about) in the minority? So what we should be doing is making it socially unacceptable for families where there are 2 parents together that the fathers aren't stepping up. And yes their jobs are often so fucking important, if only because they earn the most but why are we there?

Where i am each parent is entitled to 10 sick days (with full pay - covered by the health insurance, which is nearly but not quite like the NHS) per year per child (so in total each child gets 20 days entitlement) which is additional to your own sick days. It seems immensely unfair if a mother calls in sick because they have to take Tarquin to the doctor if the boss then says "can't your partner do it?" but until we can be pretty sure that that discussion has been had at home, how else can we make people think about it?

When my DC were at school i had a childminder who cost a freaking fortune, nearly the marginal amount we got from me going back to work after ML, and a DH who worked split shifts. They were the contacts the school had, and i was 3rd. The first time the school secretary called me, i went to collect the DC. And asked, pretty casually, if they hadn't managed to reach the other 2. And the reply meant a very stern discussion about following the list because I'd had to drive 40 minutes (the fact that I'd had to leave a sales meeting wasn't mentioned but it was a huge irritation to me). Why the discussion "well, IME" says secretary "sick DC want their mum". Well i want a bloody Aston Martin DB5 but i can't have one.

And so on and so forth. And then when it has finally sunk in that both parents should be playing a role - life may get easier for single parents (who we need to give a bit of extra support to, it's the right thing to do).

Hold MPs to account. Hold HR to account. Join a union. Get DH involved where possible.

And yes their jobs are often so fucking important, if only because they earn the most but why are we there?

It’s society.

I found it an eye opener with our kids. Dh and I both working full time, same salary.

Every time dh asked to leave early because of the nursery run, or wanted to be in late for dr’s appt, or parent meeting, or christmas play, he was asked “can’t your wife do it?”. Every time. They knew I worked, and shifts at that so if I was mid shift I simply couldn’t leave.

If I said i would be in late because of child related reason, not an eyelid was batted. It was easier for me to arrange the time off because it’s more socially acceptable.

The fact is it’s a vicious circle. The pay gap exists because it’s always women who take time off, go part time, become sahp. Leaving men to never have to take time off- so they get promoted and earn more, so the women earn less and go pt or give up work...so employers give men a hard time for taking time for child reasons because there’s always a woman to pick up the slack.

For it to change employers need to expect the same from men and women. Men need to step up and insist employers accommodate, women need to stop with the “my salary doesn’t cover childcare” thinking. It’s a joint cost, and it might not in the short term, but long term you’re always better off working.