‘I won’t be employing women with children again’

[Everhopefulhev]

AIBU in feeling really wound up by this comment?
I’ve just had to quit my new job as my childcare arrangement fell through which is shit for my employer because obviously they could do without having to find someone else. However, whilst talking to my current boss he said ‘I won’t be employing women with children again’ and told me not to take it personally or think he’s a dick for saying it.
Is this just an example of the problems women face in the workplace? Just because I didn’t work out for them they are disqualifying any further woman with a child?
I just find this type of thing infuriating.

Norway is an extremely rich country (result of its vast natural resources) [...]
The UK is the stark opposite in every single way. It's not resource rich,

I’m afraid here, you’re just plain wrong. The U.K. has been just as resource rich as Norway, but we made a very different decision about what to do with the money generated by our resources. Norway built itself a sovereign wealth fund. The U.K. pissed it up the wall.

Yesterday my DH quit his job because, amongst other things, we have childcare issues.

@MaskingForIt

*Norway is an extremely rich country (result of its vast natural resources) [...] The UK is the stark opposite in every single way. It's not resource rich,*

I’m afraid here, you’re just plain wrong. The U.K. has been just as resource rich as Norway, but we made a very different decision about what to do with the money generated by our resources. Norway built itself a sovereign wealth fund. The U.K. pissed it up the wall.

True, but I'm not speaking historically. That's like when people bitch because the flat they sold for €200k in 2001 is now going for a million. Also, it doesn't negate the population difference and the fact that young people are moving out of Norway at a ridiculous rate and never coming back no matter how money their government throws at them.

It’s interesting that according to Mumsnet:
Nobody hires women aged 18-40 due to maternity / childcare
Nobody hires young people under 25 due to lack of experience
Nobody hires people over 40 because they are seen as too old.

So I suppose the only people in employment are men aged 26-40.

@Kaiserin

In arguably more civilised countries (e.g. Scandinavia), affordable childcare is, I think, provided by the state, in the same way that schooling is (and health care, etc.) In other word, it is treated as an essential public service, not a nice-to-have, optional extra.

If the British government was actually serious about lifting children out of poverty, by getting their parents in employment, it would make affordable & widely available childcare an absolute priority.

But I guess it's easier and cheaper to just have unenforceable equality laws.

Yes, this is a huge huge issue.

We’ve been discussing doing foster to adopt in a few years, the biggest stumbling block when starting to formulate a plan has been my boyfriends knowledge of childcare etc because hes Swedish. When I told him the daily rate I had paid for my sons nursery he thought it was the weekly rate, not the daily rate! He about shit a brick when he found out how little parental leave a couple in the UK gets as well, nevermind the poor financial support during parental leave. He now gets why we’re both starting to save already.

My sons nursery were really good and the quality of care was brilliant, but it was very expensive. Lots of nurseries still shut at 6pm, so many people still need a childminder to do pick up, especially those who finish work at 5:30. Shift workers are of course completely shafted where childcare is concerned.

While one half of humanity must bear the children of all humanity women will never be equal.

He's a dick.

An employer asked me if I planned on having any children in the future. It was very casual but during the interview and he was clearly digging for information. I replied God no, not a chance! He laughed and said I was smart and I was offered the role a few days later. After almost a month of them arranging everything, doing checks, setting up training etc they gave me a start date. I then had to send an email to let him know that although I don't plan on having children in the future, already having 3 children makes me feel that his company wasn't quite right for me. He was most apologetic and begged for reconsideration but I'd been in a mother friendly role for 2 weeks at that point, oh well.

It was pretty bad of me, but my resentment got the better of me. Irony - he bought up the question whilst showing me a picture of his 4 kids!

ACAS. Unfair dismissal. Although I would be tempted to ring him back and record it and say "When you said you wouldn't employ a woman with children -it was reall hurtful. etc "

These threads always bring out the worst advice.

The OP wasn’t dismissed so it can’t be an unfair dismissal. She could potentially look at constructive dismissal but she hasn’t given us enough information to suggest this is a factor.

What do you think she could do with a recording that was made without consent?

FluffyKittensinabasket

It’s interesting that according to Mumsnet:
Nobody hires women aged 18-40 due to maternity / childcare.Nobody hires young people under 25 due to lack of experience
Nobody hires people over 40 because they are seen as too old. So I suppose the only people in employment are men aged 26-40. Not nobody, but my god it's harder to get a job. Are you saying you don't believe that?

If it's a small business then I have some sympathy. Imagine you're the boss of a 5 person company and 3 of your female employees go on maternity leave at the same time. Perfectly legal. However, with more than half the workforce out of action, the business is now toast. How is that good for anyone?

As a mum of three young children and a manager and I would never not employ someone because they had kids obviously. But I find it frustrating that so many women take the brunt of child care responsibilities. I manage two amazing clever women, they constantly change their hours to pick up kids/ go to school/ poorly kids/ take them to appointments. We are flexible but it does impact the office, and I can't rely on them when they leave early for pick ups. They both want promotions but I don't think they are around to do the role enough !

@lukasiak Your logic is flawed if you think we would bankrupt the country by providing free childcare. What about all the money saved that is currently paid out in benefits and UC if mothers are able to return to work? There was a study a few years ago that showed that even if 5% more women were in the workforce they would generate £750 million in annual Tax revenues and money saved in UC. Continuing to keep the workplace as hostile environment for 50% of the population is far more likely to bankrupt the country. We have free stateside schools, are free nurseries really that inconceivable?

I've had a female business owner smirk and boast to me (I was just back from maternity leave - she wasn't my employer obvs) how "she never employs women cause they have kids and childcare issues."

It's all too real I'm afraid.

Some of the comments on here are absolutely disgusting. How do you idiots think the human race continues? Women have babies and any business that employs parents, regardless of size has to have a contingency in place to allow for this stuff!

Ans when I say parents I mean both man and woman, just that it usually falls to women to make all the sacrifices at work.

I've also worked at a place where the directors would joke about not employing 'breeders' and making sure they chose people who didn't have kids. One director actually said to someone in the team who had just got engaged "you're not allowed to get pregnant cause I can't cope without you".

@Everhopefulhev its rubbish being a single parent trying to have a career isnt it?
Family courts seemingly hate you and think that having the majority of childcare is not going to affect your career so don't take it into account financially.
People at work seemingly hate you because they don't have children and just completely dont understand childcare/children or they do have children and are married/have support network and despite the fact that you were that person for years and years prior to having children who picked up the slack for others/had low priority for holidays.
Your ex definitely hates you and actively goes out of their way to do as little as possible, despite the child arrangements order. You never know how mean, vindictive and manipulative a person can be until you get divorced, despite how nice (and professional) they appeared when you were 'happily' married.
Keep your chin up OP you are right to be angry and no it's not fair, but only.people in the same position will be able to truly empathise x

[quote Justaboy]**@Justaboy I knew of a business who employed three woman sales persons who all decided to get in the family way within a short time of each other
Are you suggesting they got together and planned it?

No, no suggestions at all, its just what happened..[/quote]
You said they decided to get pregnant at the same time. You think it was planned.

You said they decided to get pregnant at the same time. You think it was planned

You’re being deliberately obtuse.

Just because three individuals planned to do something at the same time doesn’t mean they planned to do it in cahoots with each other.

You and I both decided to use MN this evening, but we didn’t plan it together.

stayathomer - so why are there 33 million people in employment if nobody employs young people, women or middle aged people?

And many employers here claim they only hire men or older women.
🤷🏻‍♀️

The whole system is systematically sexist.

I didn't get one job at final interview where I was asked about plans to have DC - the other candidate was a man.

When I had DC1 I earned more than DH.

We then both asked to go p/t to allow us more time with baby - childcare costs were about equal to one of our wages; my employer agreed, his didn't - despite giving women at his company the right to go p/t. I'm not sure mine would have agreed either, had I been a man.

As a result he then became the higher earner, and has continued to enjoy better career progression being full time (plus I took another maternity leave and had to take the whole time off myself for other reasons). This means we've ended up prioritising his career - we can't afford not to.

We simply can't find the (affordable) childcare to allow me to pursue a full time, driven career as well. I had to quit one job as it was simply untenable working "normal" hours in the office. No family help. School wrap around care finishes at 5.45, and most holiday clubs seem to finish at 4.30?! The school is nowhere near the business centre of the city we live in, meaning I have to finish early to pick up, which in my profession is not really the done thing. Childminders doing school pick up don't seem to exist and it's hard to find a nanny who wants wrap around hours only, plus that would be very expensive.

One of us needed to compromise, and society is shaped for that one person to be the woman.

@DrDavidBanner

Years ago I had a female boss when I returned from having a horrendous m/c and a hospital D&C, she said to me "I am so relieved you lost it, I didn't know what I would have done if you had to have gone on maternity etc" - I never said a word, I was in shock.

Jesus that's awful.

When I told my manager I was pregnant he asked me if I was planning on keeping it!

When I was PG with Dd1 and went to the doctor, doctors initial response was "are you planning on keeping it?"

Appalling

You’re being deliberately obtuse.

Just because three individuals planned to do something at the same time doesn’t mean they planned to do it in cahoots with each other.

Exactly! i don't know if they all got round the table and said lets cause the old firm some greif and get preggers all at the same time. They might have done they might not have done!

All I know is they decided to get pregnant and they all were due around the same time! Maybe they just got that way without thinking!! Who knows ??

What I do know is a perfectly good firm collapsed because of this and they owed us a few thousand which we never got so we lost out .

There needs to be a better system but what the answer is i don't know nor does anyone in the goverment. Even Boris's other half isnt giving him an ear bend about the matter i suspect yet like all big boss entities have children it never seems to be an issuse them having partners or wives who face the same problem as a single mum who's bloke has done a runner..

And i don't think theres any easy answer to this either.

Perhaps thats why no one seems to either want to do or is doing anything:(.

After an interview, I had to meet with the chairman - who managed to come out with "I just want someone who isn't going to go off and get pregnant, and you're clearly too old"

cost them the best part of £10k.

@DDiva

You quit your job ? Di you really have no other childcare options ?

Of course if that's true would be discrimination. But I can imagine the frustration of losing a staff member for this sole reason.

It’s not OPs problem the lack of staff. It was very unprofessional to say what he thought

These threads are always so depressing. So many posters unable to see why comments like that are not ok