I'm a landlady....

[SomeOtherGirl]

I'm going to try to word this carefully. It's to do with making different life choices but it's in a sensitive area which could imply that I'm being judgemental. I don't mean to be. I'm just wondering if this sounds normal to the ears of anonymous mumsnetters.

So we have a rental property - our old place. I will try to give as much info as possible though some probably isn't totally relevant, but people might ask otherwise :-)

A nice couple moved in and they have a baby.

The deposit was covered by the council, and the monthly rent is £600, which was to be paid by them. They are on UC - they had asked me if I minded and I answered of course not!

I am 75% sure that the guy has a job of some description as he talks about it on Facebook.

They moved in and after the first month immediately fell into arrears, with a late partial payment and then a missed payment. They are a little more than a month behind on rent.

I did some research and found that the UC people can pay us about 90% of the rent directly to us, which sounded easier for everyone so I applied for that and all has been well, aside from the outstanding rent.

We asked the tenants if they can catch up this money and they said they'd have to do so in drive and drabs. This was last autumn. They have yet to make a payment but with Christmas and then corona virus I didn't push it. UC said we could apply to have it taken out from their other benefits in small chunks but I think the debt needs to equate to two months for this.

So now there are some bits and bobs to do maintenance wise so we've been looking at that and working out how to sort them out.

In the conversation, we asked if they'd be able now to start repaying the arrears as it would help with sorting out the maintenance bits. They said they could only do £10 a month as they have to pay for other stuff - namely Sky which they have at £90 a month.

I was really surprised at this. We rely on this rent as an income. I'm not able to work at present and we live modestly. I know people tend to think of their landlord as being Mr megabucks but it's not like that with us. We have netflix at 5.99 a month and thats the extent of our entertainment luxuries.

I'm just surprised that a lovely couple who get their housing costs covered plus additional benefits - and a job - see repaying this rent debt as so low priority.

Am I a bit mad? Should I sell the place?
I've not got cross with them or anything about it by the way. But I am wondering if I should sell it. They wanted me to come change a lightbulb recently. I think they've also moved an older step child in, which is fine I guess But they didn't mention it.

I try to be a really considerate landlady as far as I can but it's never going to be a perfect situation.

Just wondering what your thoughts are ? Obviously not planning on evicting them over this.

Yes uc is paying us 90% directly now so the debt is frozen and not rising or going down.

Just FYI, ex housing officer, UC claimant and private renter here 👋. If your tennant’s working their benefits will be akin to older style tax credits and won’t invalidate any Insurance 💓

That needs to be double checked. My tenant is working, but is on UC. My insurance is fine, but some class UC as a benefit and don't cover.

I don't think you should be renting out a property to other people if you're unable to even cover a sky subscription?

What if somthng goes really wrong and you are too poor to fix it?

I rented out my old flat to a family member and ended up selling because it's too much of a financial commitment,

You won't always make money from being a landlord, sometimes tenants won't pay the rent.

Unfortunately people like this can smell "nice" like a shark smells blood.

I sold my old flat in the end. Couldn't be arsed with shit like this, plus the constant fear it would be empty and I'd get in debt covering council tax etc.

Regardless of how they are spending their money, they should of course be paying you before getting luxuries.

Gosh I should have enabled voting... I thought I'd get flamed

Tenants reckon they can get away without paying over all the housing benefit they're getting in.

Non-payers don't get anywhere else when they're finally booted out.

I’d be tempted to drop into casual conversation that you don’t make any money from their rent and if they can’t keep up, unfortunately you’ll have to sell it. People generally don’t like being forced to move and they might start to pay up if they don’t want the hassle.

They are taking the piss and you’re being too nice!

I’m the first to criticise crap, greedy landlords but you sound like a good ‘un. However, they are taking the mickey big time and I would write to them stating the following:

That rent arrears are £X and you expect this to be paid at £Y per month until it is cleared. You expect this to be paid every month, particularly as they can afford expensive Sky packages. Failure to pay will mean you will approach the council about having the arrears taken out of their UC and paid to you directly.

They are responsible for minor maintenance issues such as the changing of lightbulbs.

That you are unhappy that another child is living at the property without your permission being sought or granted.

Put it all in writing, quite formally, so that there’s no ambiguity and less “Mrs Nice Landlord”. They’ve got to understand that they have responsibilities as well as rights. I wouldn’t necessarily look to sell but I’d consider how easy it would be to find a new tenant. If you could replace them I would consider throwing into your letter that failure to clear the arrears by x date will result in notice being served. However, you might find that you’d have to go down the route of regaining possession if they decide not to leave or the council encourage them not to.

Sadly some people are just like this and they give good tenants, who wouldn’t ever dream of behaving like this and look after places as if they were their own, a bad name. My next door neighbours went on to UC, took handouts from the foodbank but always had money for weed, asked for temporary access to my broadband and promptly attached every device they had to it for weeks and tried to cadge money from me. Some people just think that anyone who is even slightly better off than them have a responsibility to give them stuff.

Some people also aren’t that bright if they admit to a £90 Sky bill to their landlord to whom they are in arrears!

They are seriously taking the piss and it annoys me because it is people like them that make LL not want to take people on UC. I used to work in social housing and this sort of thing was common. Immaculately presented houses, expensive home entertainment systems, new leather sofas and then claiming they can't afford to pay the rent. I'd evict them. Chances are that rent debt will increase not decrease.
Even if they did make the £10 per month and not miss any more months (unlikely) - it would take them five years to pay if off.
I wouldn't trust them to keep the house in decent shape either.

YANBU!
A lot of people are like this. Just not financially responsible.
I leant someone money years ago. I was staying home having home cooked meals being careful with my money as I had bills to pay. They were eating out at restaurants having a great time! I soon learnt my lesson.

@SomeOtherGirl

Yes uc is paying us 90% directly now so the debt is frozen and not rising or going down.

If UC is only paying you 90% are they paying the other 10% every month?

@lyralalala

Just FYI, ex housing officer, UC claimant and private renter here 👋. If your tennant’s working their benefits will be akin to older style tax credits and won’t invalidate any Insurance 💓

That needs to be double checked. My tenant is working, but is on UC. My insurance is fine, but some class UC as a benefit and don't cover.

Most have a clause that if the benefit is 50% or less than the wage it doesn’t screw up insurance. always best to double check of course xx

Irrispective of working/benefits or what they spend there money on .They don't see your rent as a priorty .
Please do change light build or they could use it as a reason to withhold rent if you ever try to evict them by saying you were not keeping it safe and maintained .
Get rid.

Do they keep the property in an ok state?

I’m a ll. I imagine lots of people responding here have no idea of the on costs when changing over normal tenancies, let alone evicting tenants. It would cost you far more than the month or so in arrears to change tenants even if they go with no fuss. Then there’s no guarantee you’ll get tenants, who look after the property and pay.

I’d see if you can get the back rent through the UC system. I’d also think about using an agent in future.

Evict.
You’ve only lost a relatively small amount of money so far- and they aren’t going to change.

£90 feels like a red herring. You can get sky, phone and tv for £90. They normally tie you into a package and that £90 may have been affordable when they had money. They may not be able to get out of the contract without incurring penalties.

I don't think you should get rid just yet but observe: they don't seem like ideal tenants with falling onto arrears and moving in an extra child.

As landlords you should expect some losses. So long as they maintain the place and don't trash it I'd say expect never to get that money back. It's the nature of being a landlord.

If you're operating on thin margins then being a landlord is not for you.

I'm also a landlord too - money isn't everything unless like in your case it appears to be. In which case I'd say sell up

And... This is why landlords don't want to be forced to rent to someone on benefits. Not because we are evil, but because sadly, experience teaches us that people on benefits are more likely to get into arrears. Before the anti landlord brigade start, I'm not saying ALL.

However, combined with the fact they expect you to change a lightbulb and they can clearly afford to pay for sky I'd be taking steps to remove them from the property, and swiftly before it gets worse and you find they've let a tap leak through the ceiling and it collapses (this happened to us), or they've got 3 dogs they let shit on the carpets, again from experience, the list goes on.

Whilst technically you'd ideally want to get your rent arrears back and evict by those grounds, it will take far far longer and cost you more in the long run. Use a section 21 the "no fault" eviction. And take note: this is why landlords use the section 21, there is fault, but it's just easier.

Sorry OP, we've all been there, but experience teaches us to spot the warning signs and get out early / not rent to x or y in the future.

Tenants constantly moan they can't find pet friendly rentals, because some tenants let their pets destroy the place, it ruins it for all, or just a handful of tenants on benefits not paying, will put the landlord off next time.

You're pregnant, you don't need this shit OP. Check out the Property Investment Project for some more experienced landlord advice.

@SomeOtherGirl

Gosh I should have enabled voting... I thought I'd get flamed

I hate the idea of landlords. I hate that people have more than they need. I really disagree with the principlw. But it sounds like you’re trying your best to be a kind and considerate ll

Just had a look at sky packages
as far as I can figure out they must have sky sport plus loads of other things

There are lots of people on universal credit that would never do this , it makes me cross because it's this sort of behaviour that makes it so difficult for others .

I was thinking we would so the maintenance bits and then see what they say as we'll be in a stronger position ifswim

Technically they are two months behind as missed month and only partial payment. I'd ask uc to deduct the money

one investment for any decent landlord which is tax deductible (less than £80 a year) membership of NRLA a good landlord association they have legal info & a good forum & phoneline plus lots of paperwork you can download
Really useful

I am also a LL. They should prioritise the rent however most renters are aware that LLs aren't keen to go through the court process due to the cost. I assume you have a contract OP that states the maintenance you will cover?

I think I'm viewing as them as "lovely" because UC are now paying the rent and it makes it feel like THEY are paying, blinding me a bit.