I'm a landlady....

[SomeOtherGirl]

I'm going to try to word this carefully. It's to do with making different life choices but it's in a sensitive area which could imply that I'm being judgemental. I don't mean to be. I'm just wondering if this sounds normal to the ears of anonymous mumsnetters.

So we have a rental property - our old place. I will try to give as much info as possible though some probably isn't totally relevant, but people might ask otherwise :-)

A nice couple moved in and they have a baby.

The deposit was covered by the council, and the monthly rent is £600, which was to be paid by them. They are on UC - they had asked me if I minded and I answered of course not!

I am 75% sure that the guy has a job of some description as he talks about it on Facebook.

They moved in and after the first month immediately fell into arrears, with a late partial payment and then a missed payment. They are a little more than a month behind on rent.

I did some research and found that the UC people can pay us about 90% of the rent directly to us, which sounded easier for everyone so I applied for that and all has been well, aside from the outstanding rent.

We asked the tenants if they can catch up this money and they said they'd have to do so in drive and drabs. This was last autumn. They have yet to make a payment but with Christmas and then corona virus I didn't push it. UC said we could apply to have it taken out from their other benefits in small chunks but I think the debt needs to equate to two months for this.

So now there are some bits and bobs to do maintenance wise so we've been looking at that and working out how to sort them out.

In the conversation, we asked if they'd be able now to start repaying the arrears as it would help with sorting out the maintenance bits. They said they could only do £10 a month as they have to pay for other stuff - namely Sky which they have at £90 a month.

I was really surprised at this. We rely on this rent as an income. I'm not able to work at present and we live modestly. I know people tend to think of their landlord as being Mr megabucks but it's not like that with us. We have netflix at 5.99 a month and thats the extent of our entertainment luxuries.

I'm just surprised that a lovely couple who get their housing costs covered plus additional benefits - and a job - see repaying this rent debt as so low priority.

Am I a bit mad? Should I sell the place?
I've not got cross with them or anything about it by the way. But I am wondering if I should sell it. They wanted me to come change a lightbulb recently. I think they've also moved an older step child in, which is fine I guess But they didn't mention it.

I try to be a really considerate landlady as far as I can but it's never going to be a perfect situation.

Just wondering what your thoughts are ? Obviously not planning on evicting them over this.

YANBU at all! But you say they pay for sky but sky is a contract which gets taken out automatically every month so they might not actually have any money left over to pay you any more.

I have been on UC and when I started working I wasn’t eligible for housing benefit as whatever you earn is taken off UC so even though they might claim UC it might only be a small amount (or they don’t earn much, or haven’t declared it).

You can apply for a loan from UC which could be used to repay but they may have already used this money for something else.

I would definitely be getting my money back and explain that you need X amount else you will be forced to sell up. If you are happy with them as tenants otherwise I would hold on to see if you can get the money off them first. I definitely wouldn’t be doing any repairs or anything though!

You're too nice. Over £1,000 a year on Sky, FFS. The next thing you'll hear is that she's pregnant again...

I can just see another thread....”I’m a little bit behind in my rent, I’ve said I’ll pay it back in small amounts AIBU?”

The answers...
Your landlord will be stupid to evict you for a months rent, they’ll loose much more by having the house empty, your a good tenant as you pay most of your rent on time, you look after the property, etc etc!

No, they said they were on UC so I presumed they did not have jobs. I mentioned this suspicion of a job in relation the subsequently not being able to afford the arrears. I did do other checks.

But regardless of what checks you did OP, you didn’t check whether they were financially able to afford to rent your house, which is the most important check of all.

They can’t afford it, and couldn’t afford it as soon as they moved in; they knew that and took advantage of you not checking their situation out.

@Bonelesschuck I don’t hate Americans and haven’t seen anything that shows anyone on here has! I’m sorry if you feel that way I promise you that if you’ve met rude people on here they do not represent us as a majority.

I think some people are just bad at budgeting and prioritising. And some companies selling non-essentials can be pushy AND hard to let you out of a contract (entertainment, gyms etc.) They may have wanted a budget package and been upsold, then unable to ditch the contract.

I was an accidental landlady (thank heavens, no more). Rented out to a gentleman in a professional role earning substantially more than I was (close to double). He fell into arrears almost immediately. He just didn't prioritise paying rent. I did get it paid - eventually - but it was stressful.

And if the tenants are simply told they must leave, they might. Then the legal process of eviction would be unnecessary

No, that's not how it works. If the tenants decide they want to surrender their tenancy, that's a different matter.

No tenant can be asked to leave by their LL. Notice can be served, tenants can agree to surrender their tenancy agreement.

Only a court can make an order for a tenant to leave. The owner of the property cannot.

I wouldn’t bother trying a section 8, just look to serve a section 21 when they come to the end of their fixed term. It’s not worth the hassle of a s.8 for one months rent.

SomeOtherGirl, I'm a bit concerned re what you've said about getting paid some of the UC directly and the ambiguity about whether the tenants are working.

I don't know how things happen under UC, but there have been horror stories on here previously about landlords whose tenants committed housing benefit fraud – and the council clawed the money back from the landlord rather than the tenant.

I think you should find out urgently whether this still happens, and clarify the position with your tenants' UC and work. I'd hate to see you bitten by this.

@Brendabigbaps

I can just see another thread....”I’m a little bit behind in my rent, I’ve said I’ll pay it back in small amounts AIBU?”

The answers...
Your landlord will be stupid to evict you for a months rent, they’ll loose much more by having the house empty, your a good tenant as you pay most of your rent on time, you look after the property, etc etc!

Well this is part of the consideration yes. Pros and cons. Eviction would leave me open to an empty period.

I think the rent has to be two months worth to reclaim through UC - if someone can tell me thats not the case I'd be made up!
Other than that it would have to come out of the deposit at the end I suppose.
We'll do the works - which we hadn't been made aware of before now- and then we'll reassess.

The property isn't rising in value at all and has cost a bit recently in big ways - we got a damp proof course prior to them moving in.

@PerkingFaintly

SomeOtherGirl, I'm a bit concerned re what you've said about getting paid some of the UC directly and the ambiguity about whether the tenants are working.

I don't know how things happen under UC, but there have been horror stories on here previously about landlords whose tenants committed housing benefit fraud – and the council clawed the money back from the landlord rather than the tenant.

I think you should find out urgently whether this still happens, and clarify the position with your tenants' UC and work. I'd hate to see you bitten by this.

That sounds terrible! I have no idea how to find this out either! Sounds like I might need to nudge them out of the door after all ☹

They do sound a pain and the lack of priority they seem to give the arrears is very annoying.

That said, if maintenance costs are generally a struggle without the arrears being paid, I would say that you can't really afford to be a landlord and should try to sell.

@heartsonacake

No, they said they were on UC so I presumed they did not have jobs. I mentioned this suspicion of a job in relation the subsequently not being able to afford the arrears. I did do other checks.

But regardless of what checks you did OP, you didn’t check whether they were financially able to afford to rent your house, which is the most important check of all.

They can’t afford it, and couldn’t afford it as soon as they moved in; they knew that and took advantage of you not checking their situation out.

If UC pays a tenant money for the rent, I (perhaps foolishly) assumed they would then simply transfer it to me. But they didn't: it fell down the back of the sofa on the way. I think the excuse the gave was it was used for a birthday party. Bit of a wtaf moment for me hence I got straight on the blower to UC.

@Inkpaperstars

They do sound a pain and the lack of priority they seem to give the arrears is very annoying.

That said, if maintenance costs are generally a struggle without the arrears being paid, I would say that you can't really afford to be a landlord and should try to sell.

If they paid the money, I could probably get one of those nice blokes off trust a trader.com to do the work. If they don't, they'll be stuck with my DH 😂 (he's pretty handy but a bit busy with his own job)

Well, at least find out the position re UC direct payments and who gets stung if there's any... lack of frankness on the part of the UC claimants.

It may well be that everything is above board: a lot of working people completely legitimately claim some UC.

It's just they sound like cheeky fuckers who are a bit lax about financial obligations.

What references did you get prior to giving them the tenancy?

Never assume you’ll get the money back via the deposit - it’s unlikely there won’t be any cleaning to be done.

Birthday party? You have to get your head round the fact that they STOLE YOUR MONEY. And then knowing they spent your money on a sodding birthday party, you still let the arrears go because of Xmas (seriously!) and now Covid... you know that a huge number of people haven’t been affected by Covid at all, and have actually saved money? Stop trying to be “lovely landlord” - I promise you they see your “lovely” as “mug”

A previous tenant got into much bigger arrears and trashed the place, and wasn't on UC so I had no option to reclaim, and she was racist to my DH, so yes, in comparison these guys are quite nice

To paraphrase another quote on MN- just because you had a tenant who was a Level 10 piss taker, does not mean you have to accept Level 8 piss taking from this pair.

Get the arrears back through UC.

How long is left on their tenancy - was it 6 months initially? I'd serve them a Section 21 and get new tenants tbh, it's not going well is it?

wouldn’t bother trying a section 8, just look to serve a section 21 when they come to the end of their fixed term. It’s not worth the hassle of a s.8 for one months rent

You beat me to it, Zig. Just coming back to ask OP, where they were in their fixed term. S21 has little defence. I agree this would be the less hassle route.

I'm a landlord too. I'm afraid that you seriously need to toughen up here. They know that you are frankly a soft touch and are taking advantage. I am speaking from experience. I was nice, reasonable, went the extra mile to refresh carpets and furnishings etc and a previously decent tenant has turned CF on me big time. Owed me two months rent during lockdown- which I understood- but at the same time was asking me to spend even more on "nice to have" improvements. He got told very sharply that was not even a conversation until he had cleared the arrears. He cleared them... by moving in two illegal subtenants which puts me at risk of losing my license. I'm in the process of dealing with that now.

Firstly and most importantly- do you have a proper written AST, deposit protection sorted and paperwork sent to the tenant, did you give them a copy of the How to Rent Guide and display valid gas and electrical safety certificates in the property?

You can only evict if you have done all of the above, if you want to go down that route I strongly advise that you hire a reputable firm to do it. (DM me if you want a reccomendation) You're looking at approx £100 to serve all the notification letters and about a grand if it gets to court and bailiffs.

If the maintenance is non essential, make them wait. They probably think you have loads of money and don't need paying, doing non essential work will only reinforce that view. Insist on a proper repayment schedule to clear the debt and tell them you'll be taking action if not paid by the deadline you set.

If UC pays a tenant money for the rent, I (perhaps foolishly) assumed they would then simply transfer it to me. But they didn't: it fell down the back of the sofa on the way. I think the excuse the gave was it was used for a birthday party. Bit of a wtaf moment for me hence I got straight on the blower to UC

Well, that's what people do. Did you make an application to UC for an alternative payment arrangement? This can only be done when the tenant is in 8 weeks of arrears or if the tenant agrees at the time of their claim.

I'm a landlord and although situations like this can suck I wouldn't make maintenance contingent on rental payments.

Follow all the rules in reclaiming what you can, or in evicting if that is eventually considered necessary but you are responsible for the upkeep of the property so that it is in a fit and habitable state, assuming that damage is not caused by their actions. Don't hold back on any obligations here (although yes, changing a light bulb is a bit ridiculous)

I’m a landlord. If you can afford it keep the place as property will not depreciate over the long term. You need to post on Landlordzone forum for some real world landlordly advice. Join the NRLA, do some of their courses. Oh and evict them did they carry on like this. They are suckering you.

@Bonelesschuck I don’t hate Americans either! I like what you said about being a landlord is like having children you don’t love. It’s a lot of work and responsibility. As I rent to students it is even more like having kids!

Did you find them via an agent? Have they got a normal renting contract (as far as I know, an AST)?

Do you have landlord insurance?

Your tenants are behaving really as though they are pushing boundaries and seeing how much they can win/gain from you.