Would you choose your daughter or sister??

[AtLastEarwax]

Hi all,

Not sure where to put this but basically 15+ years ago (I was maybe 14/15) I overheard my auntie calling me some awful names to her (then) husband who called me names as well. I've never disclosed what she said to anyone, my hubby, mum etc I will take it to my grave but put it this way, it has scarred me for life.

Anyway in a convo to my mum. I said that my auntie doesn't like me, I know she doesn't because the things she said. The way she acts towards me and stuff. Just a lot of things over the years to do with jewellery, money etc

I wasn't a nice teenager, I am the black sheep so to say..

My mum can be quite selfish and she will never apologise or give a compliment. Whether it's my parenting or things I feel I've been successful at. If she says Thankyou it's within a sentence not direct. She visits every other family member apart from us. She plays this grandma who is here all the time. She's sees the kids once a week if that. My mum said that every other Wednesday she will come up to see us - we live just up a hill from them. I asked if it was a cover up as my grandma has been asking some demanding things of her, just so I knew to back my mums story up and she said no I will actually see you. Gobsmacked is an understatement, I really didn't know what to say. Do I feel she should visit more? Yes, don't play the perfect grandma. We don't have any other family close (as in emotionally close) that's a good one to throw back in my face when she's angry "well you and the children haven't got anyone else but us". She can be hurtful in anger - as can we all but can never acknowledge it or apologise for things she's said. It is quite a rough relationship with my mum. Throughout my first pregnancy she was vile to me, upset me all the time to tears and finally after 4 months I crossed her name off the birthing plan, she didn't care. I asked her why she acted like that and she said she had a bad year that's why she was horrible to me. Second pregnancy she was a bit better but moaned that I was different during pregnancy - apparently your not allowed to have any mood swings or anything in pregnancy. It's a bit of a she loves me but doesn't like me relationship

Anyway in the conversation I said how what my auntie said wasn't very nice. My mum said
"well had you done something to make her say it?"
I said "probably who knows?"
And she said "don't make me choose"

To me I would never say that to my daughter! Perhaps I'm missing something but if my daughter expressed something that had scarred her I would believe it. I will never tell anyone what she said so it's all a bit pointless thinking like this but to even consider choosing??

I would choose my daughter hands down to my sister. I know that sounds awful, I love my sister but my daughter would come first

I'm giving this space in my brain that I really shouldn't but I just wanted to see other people's views on it?

@MoreListeningLessChatting

wow *@AtLastEarwax*

So you confided that you were abused by your dad to you mum and she "told me to shut up and accept it in a nutshell. My sister wasn't abused though"

The one person whom you thought would help, keep you safe and you could trust enabled and ignored the abuse. Wow - please if you haven't already reach out to a counselling service and get some help.

Your mother is a vile person to say that to you and to shut up and accept it. You have been badly, badly let down. I would struggle to have a relationship with a person who treated you like this. You don't have to have contact with your 'mother' (I struggle with the term because although she birthed you she didn't mother you).

Reach out for help, ignore the horrible comments, some really cannot help themselves and appear to get a kick out of being nasty on here. Bullies behind a keyboard, they are not worth thinking about.

Yes to this^^.

I'm so sorry op. I'm sorry for the way this thread has gone too.

@AskingforaBaskin

Wow how nasty are you. Totally uncalled for. Are you usually this vile to a person on the internet given the circumstances? Be kind didn't reach you then.

Are you not aware that the OP's mother covered up ABUS by the father? The mother basically " told her to shut up about the abuse and ignore it". I think quite a few survivors of childhood abuse can be difficult teenagers...I wonder why!

ABUSE not abus

@AtLastEarwax
We choose friends..We cannot choose family.
I feel you have a lot of hurt going on underneath.
As for people saying ''Her obligation to you is over'', people clearly don't understand that it is possible too be hurt for years, decades by a 'toxic' family.

My stepmum and her mother...I found out recently why stepmum had carried decades of anger to her mother because of incidents in her youth..and they shocked me.

I really hope you can work through this.

This poem helped me..

''This be the verse''

This Be The Verse
BY PHILIP LARKIN
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,

Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

@AtLastEarwax

@MoreListeningLessChatting
Agree totally with what you say.
Bullies behind a keyboard out in force today.

OP's mother covering up abuse?...Appalling. No wonder OP is hurt.

Has the OP said she was the victim of the abuse? There’s a strong implication but I can’t see where she has said this. The OP skirts around but doesn’t seem to come right out and explain her problems with people. This isn’t helpful when she is accusing other family members and asking people to take sides.

I can understand the psychology of setting a blind faith test. But if it’s done repeatedly without any substance then people will lose patience with the OP.

Accepting the OP is a victim, she needs to come to terms with it separately. Then she can if she wants confront family members. But I fear she is doing herself no favours at the moment. Which is why she is getting unsympathetic replies from people.

Why should OP bear all her secrets in public?
It isn't for our 'entertainment'. like that ghastly Jeremy Bile TV show

We don't need to know the exact details.

@LemonTT

Has the OP said she was the victim of the abuse? There’s a strong implication but I can’t see where she has said this. The OP skirts around but doesn’t seem to come right out and explain her problems with people. This isn’t helpful when she is accusing other family members and asking people to take sides.

I can understand the psychology of setting a blind faith test. But if it’s done repeatedly without any substance then people will lose patience with the OP.

Accepting the OP is a victim, she needs to come to terms with it separately. Then she can if she wants confront family members. But I fear she is doing herself no favours at the moment. Which is why she is getting unsympathetic replies from people.

Wow, that's some mental gymnastics to make sure that this can all be the OP's fault . How kind of you, considering what she experienced as a child and what her mum told her to do about the abuse. I'm sure your comment didn't open up any old wounds at all . Ugh, some of the comments on here. AIBU at its worst.

@AtLastEarwax

I want to take it to my grave as I don't want anyone to know as that might cause trouble. I confided one my mum as to what happened but refused to go into great detail

The abuse was basically my dad, mum told me to shut up and accept it in a nutshell. My sister wasn't abused though

OP clearly WAS ABUSED . doesn't anyone read the whole thread? @AtLastEarwax, this is so, so common.

Try to get some good counselling if at all possible for this.. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy {CBT} can really help.

"Has the OP said she was the victim of the abuse?"

Have you not read Op's posts?

I haven’t asked the OP in any of my posts to reveal all. I’m not denying any truth she is speaking. I am explaining I’m not clear on what she is trying to say about her family. Which a lot of posters have highlighted.

If she communicates that way with them she’s never going to get her resolution from them. She won’t get it from you either. You haven’t provided anything other than attacks on other posters

She needs professional counselling.

Screw your aunt.

If she isn't willing to see that you are no longer the person you were 18 years ago, when you were a teenager, she isn't worth your time.

To answer your question, I don't have a sister (I have a brother), but my daughter would come first every time. Well, and my son. Above anyone and everyone else. I'm sorry that your mother assumed it was your fault and didn't do anything to boost your own sense of self.

In your shoes, I would have nothing to do with the aunt and not get involved in discussing her with my mother. And prove the aunt wrong about who she perceives you to be.

@LemonTT

I haven’t asked the OP in any of my posts to reveal all. I’m not denying any truth she is speaking. I am explaining I’m not clear on what she is trying to say about her family. Which a lot of posters have highlighted.

If she communicates that way with them she’s never going to get her resolution from them. She won’t get it from you either. You haven’t provided anything other than attacks on other posters

She needs professional counselling.

Honestly, could you just stop? Please. I really don't think you are helping. That is an enormous understatement.

@SomeWateryTart

I am telling the OP she needs to get professional help. This will give her the voice she needs. I believe that is help.

You do not have control of the advice given here. You haven’t given the OP any advice. You just attack other people who do.

To answer the first question, I would choose my daughter, but given that I don't have a sister that's academic really!
Families can be very complicated OP and it is not abnormal for abuse to be covered up and to have long term effects on both past, current and future relationships.
My suggestion would be to try to contact an adult survivors of abuse type charity to see what they would suggest to help with your feelings about the past and the way forward for you.
Yes there are some families including mothers with adult children grandchildren who see each other almost everyday, but also many who only see parents a few times a year. So a once a week or fortnight type commitment isn't that much difference in my opinion.

@AtLastEarwax no no no please don't keep putting yourself down... have you read the books 'toxic parents' ? I think it might help you. I had a very similar relationship with my mother in that I was never good enough no matter how much I achieved. The book really helped me understand what was going on

[quote LemonTT]@SomeWateryTart

I am telling the OP she needs to get professional help. This will give her the voice she needs. I believe that is help.

You do not have control of the advice given here. You haven’t given the OP any advice. You just attack other people who do.[/quote]
Sweet jesus, you think your messages are supportive? Oh my fucking God. You need help.

And don't fucking @ me again @LemonTT.

It really doesn’t sound like a nice family OP.

For your sake and your children’s sake, it’s just go a bit less contact.

For people you don’t like you seem to be in each other’s lives a lot. Your Mum, who is not very nice, was going to be at your birth (!!) and you see each other up to once a week, which is a lot.

If you don’t think they are good people to be in your life you need to just reduce contact. Do you really want your grandkids growing up seeing your Mother so often?

Does it class as abuse though if only I think it is??
It wasn't a kind of sit down and told her thing it was more when things happened I would tell her - she was rarely there when it happened and she would say
Well what did you do to deserve it?
We wouldn't have anything without your dad (as in objects, dads a millionaire)
He didn't mean it like that
Oh it wasn't like that

I considered moving to New Zealand. My mum cried saying "how can I do it to her now, she's not feeling good and she can't handle talking about it"

Tbh there's been a few times where I would have acted differently if it was one of my daughters.

One example

I went for a scan because I had lots of bleeding. Got to the scan and no baby. They used a pessary and sent me home to complete the miscarriage. Whilst I was at the hospital my sister came to look after my son. My mum came to see me the next day in her lunch hour and the first thing she said was my sister went home in a right state and was crying her eyes out. If that's normal then fine but for me personally I wouldn't react like that to my daughter but she has never had a miscarriage, it's difficult to empathise I suppose

@LemonTT

You are questioning if she was abused, amongst other things and that is why @SomeWateryTart is naturally frustrated and upset with you.

The OP said "The abuse was basically my dad, mum told me to shut up and accept it in a nutshell. My sister wasn't abused though"

She doesn't go into detail of the abuse although also mentions it elsewhere, possibly because it is private, personal and very difficult to say out loud. The OP is clearly traumatised by what happened when she was a child and her families reaction - particularly her 'mother's' reaction.

I do find that MN brings out the very worse in some individuals though.

Does she have a good relationship with her sister?

Do they support each-other,talk to each other , lean on each other etc?

If the answer is yes, then that's why she won't choose.

Rightly or wrongly (and I assume it's wrongly) she doesn't have that kind of relationship with you. It's fraught, there's resentment (from you) and failures(from her) .

She isn't who you need (and she'll never be) and you aren't who she wants, it's time to accept that and move on.

[quote MoreListeningLessChatting]@LemonTT

You are questioning if she was abused, amongst other things and that is why @SomeWateryTart is naturally frustrated and upset with you.

The OP said "The abuse was basically my dad, mum told me to shut up and accept it in a nutshell. My sister wasn't abused though"

She doesn't go into detail of the abuse although also mentions it elsewhere, possibly because it is private, personal and very difficult to say out loud. The OP is clearly traumatised by what happened when she was a child and her families reaction - particularly her 'mother's' reaction.

I do find that MN brings out the very worse in some individuals though.[/quote]
Not just Lemon tbf. Despite her absolute bollocks about me not advising the op, just attacking posters who do , I was one of the few people actually trying to support the op from the beginning.

So many people out to attack her, because she's the op and 'fair game'. Obviously, my posts in response to that not being 'naice' enough is worse than the posts attacking someone who is clearly feeling vulnerable. Honestly 🙄.

OP, honestly, we can't tell you if what you experienced was abuse, as we don't know enough about it and I totally understand why you don't want to elaborate. I agree with one thing Lemon tagged on to her pretty unpleasant post though and that is that, I do think, if you can, seeing a counsellor IRL might help you work through this .

She wants my children, I know that's all she's bothered about. When the twins were born we were in hospital 9 days. DS was staying with her when we came to collect him and went home my sister and her were crying on the doorstep because he was leaving. I don't think I'll ever understand that

I think arms length is good, she'll contact me when/if she wants something

We booked to go to Budapest for Xmas and she's decided she can't not see the kids on Christmas Day so has booked too