Pornhub profit from trafficking of women and girls.

[SmileEachDay]

I’m increasingly frustrated with attitudes to porn on MN - there seem to be 2 main ways people justify it:

1. The liberal feminism defence: “It’s empowering, women are allowed bodily autonomy.

2. I enjoy it, it’s all consensual.

This is obviously bullshit. If you watch porn on a mainstream platform it is very likely that the woman you are watching has been directly trafficked and is being raped. If she hasn’t been, the woman or girl in the next clip may have been. You’re getting your rocks off to the filmed abuse of women and girls.

And that’s before we even start looking at how the commodification of women affects us more generally.

Please read this - it’s really eye opening

There's naming abuse, and there's shouting at people telling them they're basically no better than a rapist

I haven’t shouted or said that. What I have repeatedly said is that if you use Pornhub (or similar) you have no way of knowing if you woman you are getting your rocks off too has been trafficked, abused or raped. Or if she’s actually a child.

How would you rather I phrased it? Or should that reality just not be talked about?

Do you save the other women walking through Leeds who get harassed by men thinking all women are for sale? With their thinking reinforced on all sides by what they see?
People act on empirics, including men (warning for clarity - that was a vague attempt at humour). Where women are up for sale, women are up for sale. End of. It is no accident that violence against women is climbing in the UK as extreme porn takes off.

Yes, we can't save everyone. But the evidence suggests that the Nordic model (decriminalise the sellers of sex, criminalise the buyers) does a hell of a lot better than Germany's complete decriminalisation in terms of numbers.

As for getting people's backs up, well, as always, it's "talk to the lurkers."

I can't change the minds of people who when you say to them "you do realise that a not insignificant number of the videos on pornhub will be of actual rape, and, crucially, at the point of watching, you can't tell which are the consensual rough sex videos and which are the rape of trafficked women videos" just answer "I don't care, I like wanking to filmed porn, I'm going to keep wanking to filmed porn." (Incidentally, not only are such people missing a moral compass, they must be utterly crap at sex if their orgasms are entirely dependent on that sort of stimulation. Just want to point that out by way of a rejoinder to the "you just hate porn because you're prudes" contingent).

But you can maybe persuade people who're wavering to think "Hang on a minute, do I really want to be the sort of person who has orgasms while watching women being raped?"

OP, just admit you'd hate porn even if it was a million percent squeaky clean. You seem to think it would dilute your argument if you said that but it's quite obviously true.

Why is it “so obviously true” StonersPotPalace

Go on. Please explain what I have said that makes this obvious to you.

I do agree with the OP.
Whether the women are trafficked or not, I think some are, some are not, but what really makes me sick is what the trafficked woman or the consenting one is often made to portray in the Film/video etc. Is pain, horror, being frightened, or to be actively enjoying the obvious pain, to welcome mutilation, to survive strangulation etc. This is what men want to see, they dont question any of it. Wish it could be banned, know it wont be

@SmileEachDay

Viking

Then you are supporting the trafficking of women and girls.

What about if you use nail bars which have also been associated with trafficking? Genuine question

[quote Pepperwort]I saw this story that was linked upthread too. You're wasting your time "saucy". Too many of us have too much experience of men to fall for it. www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-51391981[/quote]
I honestly have no idea what you mean. That story is absolutely awful and there is zero justification or defence for her horrific experience.
However that wasn't relevant to my post.

CloudsCanLookLikeSheep

I’ve dealt with this.

If you want to start a thread about the trafficking associated with nail bars, go for it. I’ll come and support you.

This thread is about the porn industry.

Yes, that doesn't mean I can't ask you a question about why the porn industry is so different. I would have thought that was entirely relevant.

The fact you cant answer the question leads me to believe that you... cant.

Ask away.

I’m focusing my attention on the women and girls who are harmed by the porn industry.

(And you are using the harm caused to people in other industries as a cheap gotcha. 🤷🏻‍♀️)

The answer is of course that the OP doesn't dislike the idea of nail bars, but does dislike the idea of porn.

Notthemessiah

You are also using the exploitation of people as a gotcha.

Anyone who claims that working in a nail bar or being raped and sexually assaulted by random men is either stupid or being disingenuous

And I missed out the import it if the sentence about them being equivalent. Still, I'm sure you get my drift

Rose Kalemba was 14 years old when she was abducted, stabbed and raped, ended up on pornhub.

She had to beg for months to get it taken down.

She is not the only one. Online porn littered with search terms like, abused teen, and rape, etc.

I could go on. Girls like Rose and all the others, deserve better.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-51391981

YANBU at all, OP. This must be a harrowing thread for some to read, as seen by the attempts to justify porn usage.
There are indeed women - many women - who make informed choices to film pornography, who are not financially desperate, or abused, or coerced, or trafficked, women who are not raped, who know exactly what they’re doing, who may even enjoy it. Of course there are.
There are also women (and girls ) who have not made informed choices, or who have not consented at all. There’s no sense in trying to pretend that isn’t the case. Even if one only watches ‘ethical’ porn, they’re still contributing to the industry, and still run the risk of watching and enjoying people suffering. Because how can you be so sure that everything you see in consensual, safe, wanted? How?

*everything you see is

The fact that I may well unknowingly buy clothes made by exploited people... How does that work? How is it the same?

If I were watching videos of women and children making clothes under terrible conditions and masturbating to it, maybe.

These images are online forever.

I find this oh what about xyz totally disingenuous. Masturbating to what are possibly images of rape is grim.

But that's part of it.

In India it's a huge issue with women being raped, filmed on phones and the footage sold.

Mainstream porn, a lot of it is not about mutuality but male sexual dominance.

In real life rape is hardly rare.

Like i explained in my earlier post I used to watch it until all that unconscious stuff. It's just a wtf hard no.

A girl who had been kidnapped and was being raped was found after videos were put on a site. Everyone said yay! Well done trust site! They saved her!

?????????

There are stories about pornhub in various sites over the internet.

Here’s another fightthenewdrug.org/pornhub-reportedly-profits-from-nonconsensual-videos/

Independent, Guardian, NY Daily News, India Times all picked it up.

I find it odd that the reaction to (usually) women finding the porn industry concerning amounts to, you're just a prude.

You'd think that men could come up with something more original? That's been around for decades.

I find it odd that the reaction to (usually) women finding the porn industry concerning amounts to, you're just a prude

But if you’re absolutely determined to defend porn, then the only option is that someone questioning it just doesn’t like sex. For the narrative to work, porn is just part of sex.
That’s why “prude” is clung to.

@SmileEachDay

Notthemessiah

You are also using the exploitation of people as a gotcha.

Pointing something out is not 'using' anyone.

Two things I find weird:

The idea that having issues with the porn industry means to want to 'stop men wanking'. Said on porn threads a lot, not this one, but still.

The other one is that not being on board with mainstream porn means you are anti sex in some way.

Do so many people really see porn, and wanking to it as a more real or important form of sex to sex with other people in real life? Because that's how the previous two points work.