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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbour in our garden, WWYD?

256 replies

Biscoffscoff · 30/07/2020 19:20

First of all, apologies now for lack of diagram, I have no idea how to upload one! And sorry it's a long one, it's hard to explain...

We live in an area of old miners cottages. It's common in our town for shared gardens, or gardens with rights of way across them (which these days are used for putting wheelie bins out). We bought our house two years ago. Having a private garden was a big plus for this house we chose, or so we thought!

We are in a row of 8 or so terrace houses. Ours, and the houses to the right of us, have longer gardens and parking access at the back to garages that are at the bottom of the gardens. This is via a small lane. The lane originally led to a park. One of our neighbors told us that there was a lot of anti social behaviour with the park/lane opening onto the gardens. So at some point the park land was fenced off and it was agreed the lane could be gated, so those of us that have garages have a key. All our neighbours have lived here since before the land was fenced.

The neighbour on the left of us doesn't have a garage, and his garden is shorter than ours, he backs onto the park. He used to be able to access his back garden from the end of the lane/start of the park. There is a gate in his garden because of this. When it was fenced, the access from the lane ends at the end of our garden. The neighbours gate opens into our garden.

The previous owner of our house was an elderly woman who didnt mind the neighbour cutting across her garden when the fencing went up. Her son was quite savvy and keen for this not to become a right, so he got a solicitor to draw up a licence agreement which ensured it was goodwill only.

When we bought the house this was explained to us by the EA and owners son. The son told us he'd explained to the neighbour the access ended with the sale, and he'd have to approach us if he wanted it renewed. He never did, we never met him, we thought that was that. Not long after we moved in, the other neighbours approached us about putting money in to replace the gate to the lane also, and that gate is locked. We assumed that there was no access for the neighbour.

In lockdown we've been working from home, and in the first few weeks noticed from the window a couple of times someone walking through our garden. We spoke to the neighbour who had arranged the replacement gate and they told us yes, they'd given a key to the neighbour next to us as he's always had access and presumed he needed a key. They were very apologetic as they thought we knew he had access.

In normal circs we would have knocked on to speak to him but as we don't know him at all and this was at the point of lockdown where everyone was very jittery, didn't think it was a good idea to go round.

The old lady didn't use the garden much and we've been using it a lot in lockdown. We hadn't seen him in the garden for a while and thought he must have stopped using it, now that it's very obviously in use (garden furniture out etc)

Today I came in through the garden and found the neighbour in the garden. Not only in the garden, but cutting the hedge - OUR hedge - that runs from the gate across the back of our garden! Presumably he's doing this to keep his access clear!

I would love to be one of those people who blurt things out but I'm not. I was walking through with my heavy shopping and he gave me a cheery wave as though this was entirely normal.
I stopped and stuttered something about how I had been planning to wait until the autumn because of nesting birds. He told me he'd checked them and it was no trouble because he's retired. I walked in the house and unfortunately it was only then that my brain caught up with a WTF!

So not only does he clearly think this is the norm for him to be in our garden, he thinks he's doing me a favour by doing my gardening!

It's really frustrating that because we're out at work so much we had no idea that he was using this access for the first eighteen months we've lived here, and clearly he and the other neighbours (they are friends) think this is entirely normal.

I want to reclaim my garden back but with it being so long and with me making small talk with him I've no idea how to go about this.
Im also aware that if it hadnt been for lockdown we wouldn't have known he was doing this so part of me feels like I'm being a bit petty to say no now, when it's been happening without bothering us before, and will likely be the same again when I'm back in work in September.
But equally I don't want to give up having a private garden due to British politeness.

WWYD?

OP posts:
Barrychuckle2 · 30/07/2020 21:09

Just be very careful how you handle it as when you go down the formal route, this must be declared as a dispute when you sell your house. This could well put off any potential buyers.
Wherever possible I'd sort this out amicably ....

WiddlinDiddlin · 30/07/2020 21:12

Excellent diagram!

It would not work for me, I have dogs, I definitely don't want folk appearing in my garden without warning.

I think I'd go chat with him, find out if he is aware he doesn't actually have the right to access that way and see how he is..

If, very apologetic, polite, etc... IF it suits you, then maybe allow him to continue (with a written agreement making it clear it is permissive and you may with draw permission at a later date if you wish).

If he's a git about it, tell him to stick it up his bum.

Collaborate · 30/07/2020 21:13

Definitely speak to him about it. This is not something you take a vote on. You don't need his permission. Block off his gate if he doesn't take any notice, and lock the entry from your garden to your gate. He'll have to sort out his own entrance to the lane via the park, which presumably is how he did it before the park and the lane were fenced off.

Tell him you have decided you want your privacy and that's the end of the matter.

fodderbeet · 30/07/2020 21:13

When the park was fenced, there should've been gates put in for him to allow him access to his garden. I feel sorry for him that he's been fenced out of the access. Can you and your neighbours get gates for him? It seems that you're all benefitting from him being locked out of the lane.

Allgirlskidsanddogs · 30/07/2020 21:15

It’s a No from me.

He needs telling that he does not have permission to access his property via yours. You have a right to your privacy. (If you are being neighbourly you could add that occasional access could be granted with prior arrangement.) I would also make it difficult for him, a large pot with a big spiky plant blocking his gate but on your side. I would also make it clear that he is not to cut or trim any plants in your garden.

Frlrlrubert · 30/07/2020 21:17

I think if you do decide to let him continue to have access you need him to sign the same kind of agreement as before, so he doesn't establish some sort of 'right of way'. So you're going to have to speak to him either way.

I'd be annoyed about the hedge trimming (but like you, would probably have failed to assert myself and then kicked myself afterwards), so I'd absolutely want to stamp on that even if I did decide to allow him continued access.

Bargebill19 · 30/07/2020 21:17

Definitely send a solicitors letter if it was me in your position. They can send it to “the occupier of xyz”.

Isthisit22 · 30/07/2020 21:17

Why not just get rid of your gate?

PicsInRed · 30/07/2020 21:19

I'd pour concrete into the gate space but that's just me.

Barrychuckle2 · 30/07/2020 21:20

@Bargebill19

Definitely send a solicitors letter if it was me in your position. They can send it to “the occupier of xyz”.
If I had a solicitors letter from my neighbour without them speaking to me first I would hit the roof ! Also you will have an audit trail for when you sell your house when the sellers questionnaire ask if you have had any disputes with neighbours during your time as owner...
FiveTwoFaster · 30/07/2020 21:23

I would have a chat in person - my neighbours on our road would talk to each other not send solicitors letters after 18 months of not noticing something. What @titchy said basically.

Chances are he’ll apologise profusely, say he quite understands and you‘ll be quite comfortable to see him in the street. IF he is moody about it, then go to the solicitor’s letter, but being all cheerful and smiley when you see him then getting legal on his ass without an approach in person is overkill.

If it were you, wouldn’t you think “she could have just knocked on the door and explained! Not sent a scary letter that cost her £50.”

tryingharder92 · 30/07/2020 21:24

Can you lock your gate, even temporarily? Or move your shed in front of his gate?

lakesidesummer · 30/07/2020 21:25

I would talk to him, explain that the access has to stop as agreed at point of sale.
I might say I'm thinking of getting a dog so it wouldn't be safe of him or the dog.
( you can change your mind about dog later)

icelollycraving · 30/07/2020 21:28

I’d be a bit suprised to find someone in my garden. I’d probably just suck it up for neighbourly harmony, particularly for someone elderly.
If it became annoying then say you were going to change the garden and put plants/tree there?
I certainly wouldn’t be firing off a solicitor’s letter without approaching first. That seems very heavy handed. You’d be forever the horrible newbies who made Bill’s life awful.

madcatladyforever · 30/07/2020 21:28

I think I'm going to have to just say to him that we're using the garden more and would like our privacy, and that there's no right of way so we are ending the access.

No don't take the easy way out, state quite clearly that as he well knows he no longer has access to your garden and you would appreciate it if he stayed out and didn't touch any plants there.

He is deliberately pushing your boundaries to see what he can get away with. If you don't square up to him and tell him whats what you really will have endless trouble.

MysteryParcels · 30/07/2020 21:29

your two options are
1. heavy handed legal
2. let him continue

hey how about a third option, politely ask him to not use your garden?

THIS!!! So much this!!!

What's with all the navel gazing and legal extra this that and the other? Just go and knock on his door, smile and say to him that you bought the house on the understanding that access was permissive and you thought the previous owner's son had let him know that it had ended. You're very sorry if he hasn't, but just to let him know you'd like him to stop using your garden now thanks."

There is ZERO reason to assume this will get nasty, messy or need expensive extra legal work. He's your neighbour, go and do the radical thing and have a friendly chat.

Itwasntme1 · 30/07/2020 21:29

Sorry if I have missed this, but can you call round and say you were a bit surprised that he is using your garden for access because you understood he was told he needed your permission.

Say you are a little uncomfortable and don’t feel you can relax in your own garden, laugh and say you quite taken aback that he was gardening. Explain it’s your little domain and you want to do the gardening yourself.

Say the best thing might be best to remove the gate between the two gardens.

Take it from there.

Bargebill19 · 30/07/2020 21:30

@Barrychuckle2

Hit the roof all you want. A solicitors letter would be far far politer than what I would have to say to any neighbour who waltzed across my garden without permission. Anyone who did that would most certainly not be a friend or nice neighbour to know.

Biscoffscoff · 30/07/2020 21:31

Sorry if it wasn't clear on the diagram but the end of his garden is blocked by the fence (blue dotted line) and our garage. The ginnels are just access to the gardens (similar to a shared sidegate/alley on a semi detached house - sorry that might be a variance of how the term is used in different areas)
Something I couldn't represent in the diagram is our garden has different levels/raised borders etc which makes reorganising difficult!

He hasn't only just been issued with a key to the end of the lane. It was just that at the time we clubbed together for the gate (over a year ago now) we had no idea he went through the garden, and with the secure gate being put in we thought that would mean no issues would arise, ie there'd be no reason for him to ask for permission. Only we had no idea that the neighbour who ordered the gate gave him a key as well, at the same time she gave them to all the neighbours. So he's had a key the whole time.

I will talk to DH but I think a new license is the way to go, but with it a request to limit the use, particularly weekends when we're likely to be using the garden. As I said earlier the previous owner of our house was elderly and didn't go in the garden much (though she loved it, paid a lot for the upkeep). So I suspect he's been used to using the route without it feeling like an imposition on anyone as it'd normally be empty. I wonder now if he did the hedge for her as well.

One other complication in our area is the boundaries are shared. I referred to it as our fence as the previous owners paid for it and that's specified in the paperwork. But it is a shared boundary and therefore we can't make changes without his agreement. Ths gate isn't specified and I would think it's likely he must have paid for the gate. Not only would it be very rude to just lock his gate or remove it without discussing with him, we wouldn't have the right to do it. More importantly though, we hope to live here a long time so don't want to cause any feuds. It seems odd to us as we've only known it with the park fenced off, but given the other neighbours see this as normal I can only imagine it felt very different when the gardens backed on to open land.

OP posts:
nicky7654 · 30/07/2020 21:33

Hi OP, As the gate he uses to access your garden is on your fence line can you not just put a panel there? Otherwise anyone with a key can simply go in and out of your garden if they have a key and also it's not good for security of your home! It's very rude for someone to blatantly walk across your garden when they feel like it !

Barrychuckle2 · 30/07/2020 21:33

[quote Bargebill19]@Barrychuckle2

Hit the roof all you want. A solicitors letter would be far far politer than what I would have to say to any neighbour who waltzed across my garden without permission. Anyone who did that would most certainly not be a friend or nice neighbour to know.[/quote]
And end up with your house being worth 10% less as people don't like buying houses with border disputes....

makingmammaries · 30/07/2020 21:33

Get a large composter, preferably a heavy wooden one, and install it behind your shed blocking the gate. That way, you don’t need to address the issue directly, and he can no longer get through.

macaroniandpizza · 30/07/2020 21:34

Talking about things is the way to go. He doesnt seem like a total arsehole, he sounds a nice man that perhaps thought that tending to the garden was a nice way of saying thanks for letting him have access however i do appreciate that you want him to stop now which is totally within your rights as the owner of the garden

MadameButterface · 30/07/2020 21:35

@madcatladyforever

I think I'm going to have to just say to him that we're using the garden more and would like our privacy, and that there's no right of way so we are ending the access.

No don't take the easy way out, state quite clearly that as he well knows he no longer has access to your garden and you would appreciate it if he stayed out and didn't touch any plants there.

He is deliberately pushing your boundaries to see what he can get away with. If you don't square up to him and tell him whats what you really will have endless trouble.

I don’t understand this MN thing of immediately assuming everyone is a total bastard with the worst of intentions and coming at them like ten tons Vs just talking politely to them.
AveEldon · 30/07/2020 21:35

Block off the gate in your fence - unless there is some reason it needs to be there