Neighbour in our garden, WWYD?

[Biscoffscoff]

First of all, apologies now for lack of diagram, I have no idea how to upload one! And sorry it's a long one, it's hard to explain...

We live in an area of old miners cottages. It's common in our town for shared gardens, or gardens with rights of way across them (which these days are used for putting wheelie bins out). We bought our house two years ago. Having a private garden was a big plus for this house we chose, or so we thought!

We are in a row of 8 or so terrace houses. Ours, and the houses to the right of us, have longer gardens and parking access at the back to garages that are at the bottom of the gardens. This is via a small lane. The lane originally led to a park. One of our neighbors told us that there was a lot of anti social behaviour with the park/lane opening onto the gardens. So at some point the park land was fenced off and it was agreed the lane could be gated, so those of us that have garages have a key. All our neighbours have lived here since before the land was fenced.

The neighbour on the left of us doesn't have a garage, and his garden is shorter than ours, he backs onto the park. He used to be able to access his back garden from the end of the lane/start of the park. There is a gate in his garden because of this. When it was fenced, the access from the lane ends at the end of our garden. The neighbours gate opens into our garden.

The previous owner of our house was an elderly woman who didnt mind the neighbour cutting across her garden when the fencing went up. Her son was quite savvy and keen for this not to become a right, so he got a solicitor to draw up a licence agreement which ensured it was goodwill only.

When we bought the house this was explained to us by the EA and owners son. The son told us he'd explained to the neighbour the access ended with the sale, and he'd have to approach us if he wanted it renewed. He never did, we never met him, we thought that was that. Not long after we moved in, the other neighbours approached us about putting money in to replace the gate to the lane also, and that gate is locked. We assumed that there was no access for the neighbour.

In lockdown we've been working from home, and in the first few weeks noticed from the window a couple of times someone walking through our garden. We spoke to the neighbour who had arranged the replacement gate and they told us yes, they'd given a key to the neighbour next to us as he's always had access and presumed he needed a key. They were very apologetic as they thought we knew he had access.

In normal circs we would have knocked on to speak to him but as we don't know him at all and this was at the point of lockdown where everyone was very jittery, didn't think it was a good idea to go round.

The old lady didn't use the garden much and we've been using it a lot in lockdown. We hadn't seen him in the garden for a while and thought he must have stopped using it, now that it's very obviously in use (garden furniture out etc)

Today I came in through the garden and found the neighbour in the garden. Not only in the garden, but cutting the hedge - OUR hedge - that runs from the gate across the back of our garden! Presumably he's doing this to keep his access clear!

I would love to be one of those people who blurt things out but I'm not. I was walking through with my heavy shopping and he gave me a cheery wave as though this was entirely normal.
I stopped and stuttered something about how I had been planning to wait until the autumn because of nesting birds. He told me he'd checked them and it was no trouble because he's retired. I walked in the house and unfortunately it was only then that my brain caught up with a WTF!

So not only does he clearly think this is the norm for him to be in our garden, he thinks he's doing me a favour by doing my gardening!

It's really frustrating that because we're out at work so much we had no idea that he was using this access for the first eighteen months we've lived here, and clearly he and the other neighbours (they are friends) think this is entirely normal.

I want to reclaim my garden back but with it being so long and with me making small talk with him I've no idea how to go about this.
Im also aware that if it hadnt been for lockdown we wouldn't have known he was doing this so part of me feels like I'm being a bit petty to say no now, when it's been happening without bothering us before, and will likely be the same again when I'm back in work in September.
But equally I don't want to give up having a private garden due to British politeness.

WWYD?

I'd let him get in with it, disputes with neighbours are not worth getting into unless it is really ruining your enjoyment of your home and this is an elderly man, why would you make his life more difficult for him by making him walk round, seems a bit petty

Your neighbour gave him the key so he has took that as consent for using it. If it's a shared garden and the other party has consented, I don't think there is much you can do. They have lived there before you, they seem helpful and friendly, I would let this go.

@OneWomanOneDog I have no issue with speaking to him, but it's the length of time it's gone on for (without us being aware) that I wanted to seek some views about how to approach this. I'm fully aware that legally I have the right to go round and tell him to stop immediately. But given that it hasn't caused us an issue til now, and we're clearly the only ones in the terrace who think this is weird and that its an agreement that stretches back such a long time, I don't want to stamp my feet and cause resentment amongst a very settled and friendly bunch of neighbours

I think people are missing the point.

He was told his access ended when the house was sold, as it was only a goodwill gesture in the first place! and he was supposed to ask OPs permission for access in the future. He hasn't done this. Therefore he is a CF of the highest order.
I would have no sympathy.
OP toughen up, seriously.

@Biscoffscoff

Why do people keep questioning what our solicitor did? It's very clearly explained in the opening post. He doesn't have right of access. He had a license, drawn up by previous owners, in goodwill. The plans clearly show the boundaries and there is no right across our land. We were given copies of the licence by the sellers, with advice we could use it as a template if we wanted to grant access. There was nothing for our solicitor to check further. The only bit I don't have is proof that the sellers reminded him before the sale that he should approach us for permission because the licence wouldn't automatically extend to a new owner (it is a legal doc signed by the owner and neighbour)

Because where somebody has had any right of access across a property you're buying, your solicitor should be checking what rights / paperwork are in existence to confirm that what has been said by any other - clearly interested - party is accurate.

The licence needed handing to your solicitor so they were fully informed as to the property you were buying.

I get it OP because i too live in a village with a lot of properties like this. I used to own an old cottage which was one of a row of 4. Looking at them from the front there was access allowed across the back gardens from left to right (right up close to the wall of the houses as well) so all the garden fences had to have gates right up near the back doors. I was cottage no.2 so only the cottage owners from no.1 had right of way across my garden, but cottage no.4 had all 3 of us to their left allowed across their garden and into the lane. Originally it was for 'coal', but these days it's for wheely bins and kids muddy bikes.

The people in the far left cottage never used the right of way so no one ever actually came across my garden but it always worried me about who would move in and do it. In the 8 years i lived there i think i used the access twice. Both times i asked permisson of cottages 3 and 4.

None of us would have dreamed in a million years of touching the plants belonging to any other cottages though. That is what would fire me up to do something about it and say something to him in your situation OP. He's crossed and already fragile line here.

@user1494055864

I think people are missing the point. He was told his access ended when the house was sold, as it was only a goodwill gesture in the first place! and he was supposed to ask OPs permission for access in the future. He hasn't done this. Therefore he is a CF of the highest order. I would have no sympathy. OP toughen up, seriously.

Well, the OP was that the neighbour was informed. She has no evidence of this!

Sorry op, you are getting a bit snippy😂. I apologise for mentioning your solicitor in my attempt to help. I didn’t notice a mention of your solicitor in your opening post, only the estate agent and the seller.

Sorry, maybe my fault for speed reading, I will bother you no more.

@user1494055864

Totally agree.

I'm confused..... why is there a Gate between your gardens at all ?

@NoWordForFluffy the solicitor had all the documents, licence included, from the previous sellers. That's how we got them, how else do you think we would have them?

I also would be interested to know what his deeds say. His and yours may not match up. The first move wold be to innocently enquire what he knows about the terms of the access.

You need to decide whether you're going to be nice and tolerate this situation, in which case, forget about doing anything about it and just accept that he will appear from time to time. Or, write a letter and enclose copies of all the solicitor's stuff. And get a padlock. But this way, you are opening up a can of worms. I don't know what I'd do.

You said the seller gave them to you, and that there was nothing more for your solicitor to check. That reads as if it was done without your solicitor's involvement.

Bearing in mind your solicitor has confirmed that there is no right of way, you need to just grow a backbone and bloody tell him. As per PP.

So don't stamp your feet then Have a neighbourly chat. Be pleasant.

@BumbleBeee69 the gate is from before the land was fenced. Back then the boundaries wouldn't have been clear, there was scrubland and a dirt track. The boundaries at the back were negotiated with the council, I know previous owners bought extra land to extend the garden at that point as we have very complicated deeds for the property! It was the same for some of the other neighbours. Garages were added later.

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel well said

Jesus Christ this sounds awful. Good luck OP. Remember you're in the right here! Part of me fancies sunbathing naked just to get the "it's my private garden" point across.

Frankly, I would be grateful, thank him for helping to keep it nice and try to keep myself from seeing my neighbors' as some kind of pestilential burden.

To explain, I have lived in a rural village, well off the beaten track for 30 years, and the worst part of the last ten year has been creeping suburbanisation, by which I mean that the newer residents seem to ignore or, worse, want to limit, the short cuts in general use. Locally, no path is very close to anyone's house, and none that I use pass through gardens, but quite often there's a well trodden route across a field, usually empty. I wouldn't cross one with livestock grazing. But there's a sudden rash of private signs as (WEALTHY) incomers try to prevent and delete public footpaths. One walk I do occasionally is graduallly being restricted, although it was once a miners road, and the only way for miners to walk to work. Suddenly the estate manager has decided that it's a healthy and safety risk? Despite no accidents or incidents or new hazards in the 30 years I have walked there. I walk it regularly, just to be awkward.

@NoWordForFluffy sorry I thought it would be obvious that if the seller gave us paperwork it would be via the conveyancing solicitors, I've never bought a house where we've communicated directly with the seller. I thought that was just how things were done.

get legal advice, don't just re-do the old access licence off your own bat, things may have changed!

it sounds like he's just carried on using it after the house was sold to you because you weren't there to see him sneak through.

you're going to have to talk to him about this, whether it's to say get lost or sign this new access licence. i don't think you're being unreasonable and the other neighbours are probably not aware of all the circumstances. i would contact them and ask them to get the gate key back off him which they should never have issued if you decide to completely stop this. if you do stop it dead, then you must block any means of access through your garden, so he can't climb over the fence instead of through the gate. how will you check he's really stopped, you might need to put up a camera. I do think this is a bit beyond live and let live and into creating new rights of way across your property that will not increase its value or attraction to others. good luck whatever you decide.

Maybe I missed it but who owns the actual lane, who decided to fence off the parkland and who decided to install a gate to the lane originally? For instance, how would an ambulance get to him?

Its a tough one. On the one hand, why ruffle feathers if you have been living peacefully for eighteen months. On the other hand what if the neighbours on his other side decided to walk through his garden and yours to access the lane? Or other members of his family moved in and started using it too. It would get out of hand. A written agreement is one thing but is it worth the paper it’s written on if he has had access for a set number of years? Doesn’t it automatically become a right of way for his property?

I’d get legal advice and I would definitely speak to him about cutting hedging in your garden.

Ah, bit of a cross post. So do you all own the lane and maintain it or was it the original householders who decided to put a gate up?
If it isn't that, surely it can't be gated off.

Completely radical and out there idea, but why not speak with him.

I think you need to talk to him and remind him that his access ended when the house was sold and that for many reasons you won't be renewing it and you hadn't been aware that he was using it frequently.

Your property will
Be worth more if you resolve this OR fence off the bottom on your garden making it secure with a locking gate and leave a passageway he can use.