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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbour in our garden, WWYD?

256 replies

Biscoffscoff · 30/07/2020 19:20

First of all, apologies now for lack of diagram, I have no idea how to upload one! And sorry it's a long one, it's hard to explain...

We live in an area of old miners cottages. It's common in our town for shared gardens, or gardens with rights of way across them (which these days are used for putting wheelie bins out). We bought our house two years ago. Having a private garden was a big plus for this house we chose, or so we thought!

We are in a row of 8 or so terrace houses. Ours, and the houses to the right of us, have longer gardens and parking access at the back to garages that are at the bottom of the gardens. This is via a small lane. The lane originally led to a park. One of our neighbors told us that there was a lot of anti social behaviour with the park/lane opening onto the gardens. So at some point the park land was fenced off and it was agreed the lane could be gated, so those of us that have garages have a key. All our neighbours have lived here since before the land was fenced.

The neighbour on the left of us doesn't have a garage, and his garden is shorter than ours, he backs onto the park. He used to be able to access his back garden from the end of the lane/start of the park. There is a gate in his garden because of this. When it was fenced, the access from the lane ends at the end of our garden. The neighbours gate opens into our garden.

The previous owner of our house was an elderly woman who didnt mind the neighbour cutting across her garden when the fencing went up. Her son was quite savvy and keen for this not to become a right, so he got a solicitor to draw up a licence agreement which ensured it was goodwill only.

When we bought the house this was explained to us by the EA and owners son. The son told us he'd explained to the neighbour the access ended with the sale, and he'd have to approach us if he wanted it renewed. He never did, we never met him, we thought that was that. Not long after we moved in, the other neighbours approached us about putting money in to replace the gate to the lane also, and that gate is locked. We assumed that there was no access for the neighbour.

In lockdown we've been working from home, and in the first few weeks noticed from the window a couple of times someone walking through our garden. We spoke to the neighbour who had arranged the replacement gate and they told us yes, they'd given a key to the neighbour next to us as he's always had access and presumed he needed a key. They were very apologetic as they thought we knew he had access.

In normal circs we would have knocked on to speak to him but as we don't know him at all and this was at the point of lockdown where everyone was very jittery, didn't think it was a good idea to go round.

The old lady didn't use the garden much and we've been using it a lot in lockdown. We hadn't seen him in the garden for a while and thought he must have stopped using it, now that it's very obviously in use (garden furniture out etc)

Today I came in through the garden and found the neighbour in the garden. Not only in the garden, but cutting the hedge - OUR hedge - that runs from the gate across the back of our garden! Presumably he's doing this to keep his access clear!

I would love to be one of those people who blurt things out but I'm not. I was walking through with my heavy shopping and he gave me a cheery wave as though this was entirely normal.
I stopped and stuttered something about how I had been planning to wait until the autumn because of nesting birds. He told me he'd checked them and it was no trouble because he's retired. I walked in the house and unfortunately it was only then that my brain caught up with a WTF!

So not only does he clearly think this is the norm for him to be in our garden, he thinks he's doing me a favour by doing my gardening!

It's really frustrating that because we're out at work so much we had no idea that he was using this access for the first eighteen months we've lived here, and clearly he and the other neighbours (they are friends) think this is entirely normal.

I want to reclaim my garden back but with it being so long and with me making small talk with him I've no idea how to go about this.
Im also aware that if it hadnt been for lockdown we wouldn't have known he was doing this so part of me feels like I'm being a bit petty to say no now, when it's been happening without bothering us before, and will likely be the same again when I'm back in work in September.
But equally I don't want to give up having a private garden due to British politeness.

WWYD?

OP posts:
Biscoffscoff · 30/07/2020 20:01

@heartsonacake as I said above though, I have no way of knowing for sure that it was made clear to him when the house was sold. I have a dated licence that specified it, but that was from thirty years ago. The sellers told me they'd discussed it with him but I don't have proof of that and now I'm doubting it.

OP posts:
steppemum · 30/07/2020 20:04

There is no way of locking the gate that comes into our garden from his.

If it is wooden, screw a padlock to it.
If it is solid metal, stick two poles in the ground with a plank across
If it is metal chain link or vertical pieces, string a chain roudn with a padlock on.

I actually cannot think of a fence and gate that you cannot lock, but you will have to add a padlock in some way.

if you can't, then buy 2 large prickly holly bushes and plant slap bang in front of the gate so he can't go round.

As I said in my orevious posts, the way to stop it being an issue is to be all bright and breezy - Oh the lady we bought from was very clear that the garden was ours and no arrangement to cross an more! Didnt't her son explain? Oh dear, well, sorry he didn't say, but we'd like the garden to oursleves. Cheerio!

being friendly and cheerful when you are in the right is quite hard to counter.

labyrinthloafer · 30/07/2020 20:05

Re. Finding name - you can go to view electoral register and look up the house (well, probably can't right now!) or ask the neighbour who gave the key or just address it to the house.

Gomezzz · 30/07/2020 20:05

Ignore the posters telling you to tell him to fuck off or getting all official before you even speak to him.

Have a conversation like adults

AuditAngel · 30/07/2020 20:05

Change the lock. Tell him thee was only until sale of the property and you are not prepared to reduce the value of your property by allowing a right of way to be established across it.

Do you have children? Visiting children? Safety issues.

Mummyoflittledragon · 30/07/2020 20:07

Do you need to get the key off him? If not, don’t mention it.

Hi neighbour. There seems to be a misunderstanding. When we bought the house we were told you were informed that the access agreement ended on sale. I am sorry if this is news to you. But we are asking you to stop using our garden as a cut through. Many Thanks

heartsonacake · 30/07/2020 20:08

[quote Biscoffscoff]@heartsonacake as I said above though, I have no way of knowing for sure that it was made clear to him when the house was sold. I have a dated licence that specified it, but that was from thirty years ago. The sellers told me they'd discussed it with him but I don't have proof of that and now I'm doubting it.[/quote]
Okay. You still shouldn’t say ending because of the implication he’s had permission all this time when he hasn’t.

Just politely say to him the access ended when the house was sold so he needs to stop entering your garden.

Nottherealslimshady · 30/07/2020 20:08

I wouldn't feel comfortable with it at all. Just go round and explain that you were told he wouldn't be using your garden as a through way and that you dont feel comfortable with it but you haven't known how to approach it. Please don't enter our garden for access or to cut our hedges. We understand you were doing a nice thing but we would rather do that ourselves.thank you for understanding.

MsEllany · 30/07/2020 20:10

Of course he knows Confused. As if the son would go to the expense of having that written up and then not share it with him!

He's taking the piss, access has ended and he's lied by omission to your other neighbours to get a key. I think you're going to need to be direct here. Access ended two years ago, he's been lucky to have an additional two years but he knows full well he's only got that by deception and he's counting on your reluctance to confront him that it will continue indefinitely.

Your choices are basically, say something or accept it. If he takes offense, there's nothing you can do about that.

Davros · 30/07/2020 20:12

Be careful putting anything in writing as you will have to disclose any disputes when you come to sell

Helpmyhair2019 · 30/07/2020 20:14

@AHF1975

Our old house was like this. Is he really doing much harm? I assume that since you haven't noticed for 18 months, the answer is probably no. I'd be inclined to let it go for the sake of neighbourly harmony, especially as he is friends with all the other neighbours. Maybe a compromise might be to ask him to avoid coming in when you are clearly using the garden. I'm in the north though, we tend to try and be friendly up here...Wink
Noooo it’s not about being friendly. It’s about not being used and taken for a ride! I spent two years being friendly and allowing something similar to happen with our tricky neighbours and they just took advantage even more! It’s not very friendly of your neighbour to be doing this in the first place when he knows he’s not allowed to!
steppemum · 30/07/2020 20:16

OP am I right in thinking there are 2 gates here?

  1. from his garden to yours, no gate
  2. at the end of the lane onto the road, which is locked with a key that everyone has a copy of.

You can't change the second, you need to work on the first.
if necessary replace the fence wo he has no gate.

But a simple friendly letter would be a first step.

Dear neighbour,
Just confirming the access arrangements over our garden.
these ended when the house was sold 18 months ago, and we understood that the vendor's son had informed you.
So, just to confirm, you do not have right of access across our garden, so please don't enter for access to the lane, or to cut the hedges.

Thank you

Floralnomad · 30/07/2020 20:18

There is always a way to put a lock on a gate , just do that and either speak to him or put a note through his door telling him that the access Is now over .

Tavannach · 30/07/2020 20:18

Mmm, if I'm understanding you correctly your neighbour has been accessing the lane by going across the bottom of your garden for 30 years. I think that means that he can.

steppemum · 30/07/2020 20:18

Be careful putting anything in writing as you will have to disclose any disputes when you come to sell

What I have just written is not evidence of a dispute, just a clarification of where we stand. Shouldn't be a problem.

But I would follow a letter with closing his gate a few days later.

steppemum · 30/07/2020 20:19

1. from his garden to yours, no gate

whoops I meant no LOCK not no gate

Eatyourbanana · 30/07/2020 20:20

Honestly, I’d leave it. If you haven’t noticed before he can’t be doing it often. I just think it could open a whole can of worms and make things really awkward. Plus the mental stress... sometimes it’s just better to go ‘meh 🤷🏼‍♀️.’

Play it by ear... I mean if his swanning in & out regularly or when you’re in your garden, I doubt you’ll feel awkward saying ‘excuse me? What the hell are you doing...’

But I am very British & avoid conflict like the Covid 😂

Titterofwit · 30/07/2020 20:21

Given that its a friendly street and that its an accepted practice locally could you not bestow upon him your permission to use the path across your garden only.
No cutting anything and access to cross to and fro as necessary. You could put it in writing and have him countersign it so that he is under no illusion that he has more rights than a simple path.

steppemum · 30/07/2020 20:22

Mmm, if I'm understanding you correctly your neighbour has been accessing the lane by going across the bottom of your garden for 30 years. I think that means that he can.

no he can't because the previous owners had a legal document that said this access was agreed with limited licence. If you have made this sort of agreement, then you can never claim it as a right of way.

You can only claim these rights if there is no legal access document.
Landowners, for example, who allow footpaths across their land, have them clearly labelled as permissive paths, not footpaths, so that no-one can come back to them and say that they have created a right of way.

category12 · 30/07/2020 20:22

I wouldn't leave it - if it becomes a right (assuming it hasn't already) then it's not just about this nice chap, but anyone who buys his house later on. Who could be assholes.

Catspaw123 · 30/07/2020 20:23

To be honest I think I'd let it lie especially if there is general good harmony and neighbourliness

tara66 · 30/07/2020 20:27

Why don't you put up a continuous fence around your boundary?

popsydoodle4444 · 30/07/2020 20:30

Is the neighbour nice?,is he polite?

Do you mind him cutting across the bottom if he's not disturbing you?

Could an arrangement be sort where perhaps where he can use the access to his car at the back in return for doing some gardening work for you such as trimming headgear,mowing the lawn,weeding etc so that you both benefit from the arrangement if you want to keep things friendly?

disorganisedsecretsquirrel · 30/07/2020 20:30

Why the hell do people have to be so 'me, me mine' ? and then Start a conversation with 'get off my land or I'll get my solicitor involved'

Not sure where you all live but I would be HORRIFIED by this type of behaviour from a neighbour about this type of perceived 'offence' . Not the sort of people I would want to live near. Living in a small community is just that. It's a community and people help each other out...

Was he pissing in your garden ? Is he inviting mates round and leaving fags and dog ends lying around. After a succession of late night parties ? If yes - then THAT is the type of behaviour that requires the remedies suggested .

If not, if he is simply walking across the garden a couple of times a day by use of a gate that only 3 people have access to - then live and let live.

The last owner had a brilliant idea of the 'license' which is a way to prevent this becoming a 'right' if you come to sell but in the meantime you have a choice..

Assert your rights in a heavy handed way . This is your legal right but will come with consequences. He has lived here for 30 plus years and so have the others in this community. Behave as suggested , and be prepared to be ostracised by all around you. Not just this neighbour..

Or ... here's an idea , live and let live. Be kind. This is something that helps your elderly neighbour. When given an opportunity to be kind , when it will literally cost you nothing. (You even say you were aware until lockdown) then grab that opportunity with both hands.

He sounds lovely and kind. Wouldn't you rather live in harmony for the sake of stamping your ownership on a strip of land (which everyone already knows you own)

I know I would.

Biscoffscoff · 30/07/2020 20:30

The licence was done thirty years ago which I presume was when the land was fenced. The licence was done explicitly so that the neighbour didn't gain a right of use/access regardless of how long the licence was in place for - that was the purpose, so that he couldnt claim a right after X number of years.

I think my question has been answered in here but I've had a go at a diagram for the sake of Mumsnetters who have kindly taken the time to answer. I hope it's clear - the neighbours gate into our garden is behind our shed. Pink and green are flowerbeds and hedging, where he was pruning. He goes down the side of our garage to the lane, which is gated at the end but the neighbours gave him a key.

Neighbour in our garden, WWYD?
OP posts: