Antisemitism online

[serenada]

Isn't there something we can do? I remember a post on here, years ago, by a mum who was very frightened and her post stood out to me.

It isn't right that the Jewish community have to defend themselves alone here - can't we do something to show support and let people know they are not alone in this?

It's not racist to criticise Wiley for being an anti-Semitic shitbag. Apart from anything else, he's throwing black Jews under the bus. Apparently he's told black Jews they're not really black, or something equally inane.

@lilylion Security reasons, I guess. It happened to another convert I knew, she was converting through a Liberal synagogue (I'm Reform myself, which means I don't count as Jewish by Orthodox standards) and had to contact her rabbi to vouch for her. I forget the exact details. I do know people have been asked why they're going to Israel and if they've been before, etc.

Hello, thank you for this thread.
I am Jewish, have married out of the faith and consider myself very liberal and sadly not living near any Jewish communities.
In the last 3 years I have noticed antiemetism is on the increase and what I read on Twitter just shocks and astounds me.
I was equally very surprised by the silence on MN over Wiley's rant but then so called friends have been just as quiet and I think it speaks volumes.
From what I see and maybe I'm wrong, joe public think anti semetism is OK (and possibly even deserved) and I keep having to remind people being antisemetic is still racism.
Some one up thread mentioned about us living in pre nazi Germany times in the 30s and I agree with this whole heartedly. I am terrified of our future in the UK and at the same time will be joining a synagogue as soon as I can, to reconnect with my people and fight the good fight.

I had a lecturer who said something along the lines of “well they (meaning Jewish people) may be persecuted, however if that many people dislike them it is rather telling”.

This wasn’t some guy without an education who didn’t understand the world around him, this was a very well educated and powerful man.

The Wiley rant was bizarre, at first I thought he had probably posted a couple of racist tweets, but to then hear how many he posted and how many awful things he said was really shocking. He compared Jewish people to the KKK, thinking that sort of thing is awful enough, but to actually write it for the whole world to see?!

At least he was banned quicker than Hopkins, she was allowed to do it for years before action was taken.

I agree OP that to me antisemitism seemed to come out of nowhere and was an utterly bizarre and alien concept. I live in a very Jewish area and work with quite a few Jewish people- it's not something I would have ever given a thought to before the situation with the Labour Party brought it to attention. I thought it was buried with the nazis as a shameful abhorrent past.

I actually believe that these people with deep seated anti Semitic views and the attention that they have got has started to normalise and validate other people being anti Semitic. It's almost as though people suddenly started to think that Jewish people were "other" and when they started hearing the hateful messages that that permeated their thinking. I also think it bolstered others who secretly held those views and emboldened them.

Quite a lot of people in society think I'm a black and white way - they think some are victims and some are perpetrators and responsible. It's utterly ridiculous that Jewish people are being targeted like this by ignorant individuals and I think because there is this mistaken stereotype that Jews are wealthy some ignorant people get a chip on their shoulder and resent them. Deplorable. I hope anyone Jewish reading this knows that the vast vast majority of people see it for the utter hateful nonsense it is.

There was a comment on here once that Jews were behind Isis (few years ago when Isis was the big news).

This kind of “Jews are behind all the big world evils pulling the strings and secretly controlling things” is an ago old anti Semitic trope by the way.

Anyway, Mumsnet HQ said it was an opinion and everyone was entitled to one. 🤷‍♀️ . Even the most ancient of anti Semitic hatreds has a home here.

I follow an influencer who is hugely involved in BLM and who’s life’s work really is anti racism. She has also talked about Wiley as an important part of her community. Total radio silence from her on this. It makes me feel sad and disheartened but honestly I am no longer surprised. I just try and keep my head down now.

@SimonJT Roald Dahl said similar. Something like 'even a stinker like Hitler didn't just pick on them for no reason'. A common sentiment among anti-Semites is 'you people have been kicked out of loads of countries, maybe there's a reason for that'.

I have very little to contribute to this discussion other than to say that I am very sorry but I am also entirely unsurprised.

A common sentiment among anti-Semites is 'you people have been kicked out of loads of countries, maybe there's a reason for that'.

It’s such backward thinking. Of course there are ‘reasons‘, but the reasons are just different manifestations of religious/racist/cultural scapegoating.

Sadly I agree that we're living in the new 1930s.

The far right, now trendily rebranded as alt-right, is having a resurgence, and is recruiting very successfully online. It's also actively recruiting in the universities. Amongst other things I think it appeals to people who want to feel transgressive, same as Hopkins, and who therefore revel in coming out with antisemitic shit (and usually racist as well) in order to feel daring.

Exeter University has had repeated problems with neo-Nazi stuff, and the Warwick rape-chat included neo-Nazi comments.

I've ummed and ahhed about whether to post actual examples, as it's not nice reading. But then if we don't talk about the reality of what's happening, how can we fight it?

So herewith links, but with a content warning.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/exeter-university-exehonestly-facebook-students-police-hate-crime-nazi-propaganda-racism-a9186311.html

thetab.com/uk/warwick/2018/05/09/named-and-pictured-the-warwick-boys-who-made-rape-jokes-in-their-group-chat-28615

We're Catholic (Irish Catholics), and feel empathy. I'm pretty agnostic re the actual religion these days, but it's so bound in my identity, that giving my children that culture is important. That doesn't make me responsible for child abuse, the Magdalen laundries etc.

Our Cathsoc at uni was very pro Jewish Catholic relations, and I've been appalled to see the rise in anti Semitism.

Due to my positive perception of Judaism, I tried to send my eldest to a Jewish pre-school, it was near our house, good Ofsted, good outdoor space, and I thought it would give a good grounding in the stories that form part of both cultures, plus learning about another culture. There are Jews in Catholic schools, after all. The staff who showed us round were completely baffled that I, a non-Jew, would want my child to attend. I understand a cultural minority wanting their own thing, it felt a shame that the non-Jewish community were perceived that they wouldn't value Jewish education, and integration.

I read RLB's share, and was appalled. I really hope Starmer sorts it out. I was reassured that Corbyn's antisemitism made him unelectable, though. It's still unacceptable to the majority, I'm sure. I hope.

It's interesting re coronavirus.
Jewish people have been disproportionately affected (I'm not sure if Jews count as BAME?). It's been largely dismissed as orthodox communities gathering - but it's affected all Jews and not just the orthodox groups. Why has it been dismissed with no proper evidence or research? Money has been announcer to research BAME risk factors. Will Jews be included in this research? They should be, in case there's a genetic risk.

Unfortunately @SheepandCow there are a huge amount of people who just will not accept that Jews are an ethnic group as well as a cultural and religious one.

TornadoOfSouls

Thanks for the recommendation of Julia Neuberger's book, I'll order it.

I too have been shocked by an old friend who I considered a gentle person, completely against racism and very egalitarian in their political outlook, who was retweeting in support of Rebecca Long-Bailey and Corbyn. Even this week he was busily retweeting in moral outrage about some entirely unsubstantiated supposed action of Israeli soldiers which was doing the rounds on twitter - which a little bit of research showed was completely not what it was being represented as. However, the lie had got half way around the world before the truth had got its boots on... he was so quick to accept that this thing was true, and couldn't see the antisemitism in the Maxine Peake article at all, when it stood out a mile to me and made me incredibly uncomfortable.

And that's thing surely - legitimate criticism of Israel is fine - but so much of this stuff is barely concealed antisemitism posing as anti-Israeli propaganda, posing as real news!

Leaving the Israel issue aside, I have definitely noticed an increase in antisemitism here in the UK and especially online. It's as if people feel emboldened. Horrible. It would be good to have some considered ways of calling people on it. I do pull people up, but quite honestly often they still don't see it.

It’s been around for ages. Casual snipes, assumption that jewish people are somehow part of a conspiracy, ruling the world through dark forces.

I’m often mistaken for being Jewish all through my life and the attitudes have sometimes been eye opening ☹️.

Grim. No one seem to know how or want to tackle it effectively.

That's worrying @AnnaJKing
Isn't it acknowledged that Jewish people have increased genetic risks for certain illnesses? The ovarian and breast cancer gene, for example. That suggests, to me, there might be a genetic risk with coronavirus. If there is, it needs to be investigated.

I'm so sorry about the increase in antisemitism. I was brought up to abhor all forms of racism or intolerance. I have Jewish friends. They're not religious and don't talk about it much. I hope they don't feel unable to discuss any concerns about antisemitism but reading this thread makes me wonder.

I too have been shocked by an old friend who I considered a gentle person, completely against racism and very egalitarian in their political outlook, who was retweeting in support of Rebecca Long-Bailey and Corbyn

Social media is an exaggeration of RL so these anti-Semites can be anyone.

The far right, now trendily rebranded as alt-right, is having a resurgence, and is recruiting very successfully online.

What about antisemitism in the far left? I would imagine that is more of an issue in universities than the far right?

I think you're right @TheRealMcKenna
Separately but potentially related I've noticed an increase in misogyny on the far left.

I think the only way forward is education as to the thousands of years of persecution Jewish people have suffered. It happens again and again, almost carbon copies each time.

We are in socio- economic conditions now which has historically always seen an increase in the persecution of Jews. We need to be so vigilant and ready to call out every little inkling of anti-semitism. We need to learn from history, Jewish persecution does not start and end with the Holocaust and the media need to stop perpetuating this perception.

Maybe once people understand the consistent persecution and displacement of Jews they would understand the need for a home state where they can feel safe. This is not the same as agreeing with the political situation in Israel.

I think social media is a magnification tool and a mass media tool - not designed to cope with nuance so the wise thing is to not even try but that does mean it grows and it shouldn't have to be up to Jewish people to call it out in modern society - it shows to me, that society hasn't resolved it's AS, then, surely?

I am thinking about people I knew at college and didn't register at the time they were Jewish - i would like to show my support to them but also, I don't want to raise the topic in case they don't want to talk about it or mentally are trying to look positively about things.

The alt-right have pursued an intentional policy of targeting college students in the US.

Much of their work is online and, from what I've noticed actually happening in some UK universities (examples given above), they're gaining traction. I hope not much, but any is too much.

Again, these links are for the strong of stomach.

www.splcenter.org/20170810/alt-right-campus-what-students-need-know
WHY IS THE ALT-RIGHT TARGETING CAMPUSES?

www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/alt-right-a-primer-on-the-new-white-supremacy

www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-02-21/identity-evropa-elicits-concern-on-campus

The alt-right umbrella covers a smorgasbord of hardcore neo-Nazi stuff – antisemitism, racism, facism, anti-Muslim stuff, anti-feminist stuff.

But it can be hard to talk about on MN, because posters immediately say, "But what about the left?"

Online inroads by the alt-right:

Neo-Nazi militant group grooms teenagers
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53128169

Thankfully this teenager in Durham was arrested late last year before he managed to bomb any of the synagogues he was researching.

Durham teen neo-Nazi became 'living dead'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-50397477

It's all horrifying, and I'm sure profoundly shocking to anyone who hasn't been following this grimness.

serenada I think social media is a magnification tool and a mass media tool

Yes, and it's been very consciously and actively used by antisemitic groups.

Carole Cadwalladr's article was startling when she first discovered this back in 2016. We're now familiar with a lot of what followed, including the investigations into Cambridge Analytica. But what's been rather lost in a lot of the discussion of CA and elections/referenda, is what she discovered about far-right new media networks. The graph is particularly illuminating.

Google, democracy and the truth about internet search
Tech-savvy rightwingers have been able to ‘game’ the algorithms of internet giants and create a new reality where Hitler is a good guy, Jews are evil and… Donald Trump becomes president
www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/04/google-democracy-truth-internet-search-facebook

Here’s what you don’t want to do late on a Sunday night. You do not want to type seven letters into Google. That’s all I did. I typed: “a-r-e”. And then “j-e-w-s”. Since 2008, Google has attempted to predict what question you might be asking and offers you a choice. And this is what it did. It offered me a choice of potential questions it thought I might want to ask: “are jews a race?”, “are jews white?”, “are jews christians?”, and finally, “are jews evil?”

In 2016 Cadwalladr actually paid to take out a Google ad, because it was the only way she could think of to counteract the very effective promotion of antisemitic propaganda by tech-aware neo-Nazi who'd got Stormfront to be the top Google result.

How to bump Holocaust deniers off Google’s top spot? Pay Google
Google ‘is unhappy’ with Holocaust denial beating the truth in its search results – but it probably makes more money that way
www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/17/holocaust-deniers-google-search-top-spot

The Holocaust did not happen. At least not in the world of Google, it seems. One week ago, I typed “did the hol” into a Google search box and clicked on its autocomplete suggestion, “Did the Holocaust happen?” And there, at the top of the list, was a link to Stormfront, a neo-Nazi white supremacist website and an article entitled “Top 10 reasons why the Holocaust didn’t happen”.

On Monday, Google confirmed it would not remove the result: “We are saddened to see that hate organisations still exist. The fact that hate sites appear in search results does not mean that Google endorses these views.”
[...]
And still, anyone searching for information about the Holocaust – if it was real, if it happened, if it was a hoax, if it was fake – was being served up neo-Nazi propaganda as the top result.

Until Friday. When I gamed Google’s algorithm. I succeeded in doing what Google said was impossible. I, a journalist with almost zero computer knowhow, succeeded in changing the search order of Google’s results for “did the Holocaust happen” and “was the Holocaust a hoax”. I knocked Stormfront off the top of the list. I inserted Wikipedia’s entry on the Holocaust as the number one result. I displaced a lie with a fact.

How did I achieve this impossible feat? Not through writing articles. Or shaming the company into action. I did it with the only language that Google understands: money.
[...]
Because this is what I did: I paid to place a Google advert at the top of its search results. “The Holocaust really happened,” I wrote as the headline to my advert. And below it: “6 million Jews really did die. These search results are propagating lies. Please take action.”

There was a lot of casual racism when I was a child, think along the lines of Life On Mars style use of the n word (you can guess what a black dog was called...), inappropriate words for the Asian newsagents and Chinese takeaways. These weren't words I used, but they were used by other people. They seem even worse now, and it's hard to remember that they were commonly used back in the 70s/80s. Things seemed to be getting better but it seems to be getting worse again.

I'm appalled that antisemitism is rife. I was appalled by the issues within the Labour party. I understand there are issues with Israel/Palestine. However, I don't think there is a middle eastern state without some kind of issue (think Iran/Saudi Arabian involvement in Yemen etc).