Antisemitism online

[serenada]

Isn't there something we can do? I remember a post on here, years ago, by a mum who was very frightened and her post stood out to me.

It isn't right that the Jewish community have to defend themselves alone here - can't we do something to show support and let people know they are not alone in this?

@SheepandCow I read recently that Jews are considered BAME due to diversity and ethnic minority.

I thought BAME meant "not white". By the Dulux colour chart, I wouldn't think pale Jews would be included in "BAME". It's not the best term.

But it absolutely should be acknowledged, investigated and acted on that coronavirus disproportionally affects Jews.

I think the BAME label is pretty useless, as it's a skin colour label, and ethnicity doesn't follow colour like that, it feels a very regressive step to have all this talk of basically what amounts to "whites and coloureds". As shown by the point about coronavirus and it being higher risk if you're Jewish, it's not like white people are a homogenous group. There are multiple ethnicities within the UK, and those groups are about more than just skin colour.

BAME is not a dulux colour chart, do you not understand what the words minority ethnic mean?

I wonder if, to a degree whether that is part of the business model? So that factual information is now accessible when paid for thus encouraging those institutions which are normally publically funded (educational, charity) to use their money to pay for Google 'ads' as it becomes the only tool for counterattacking the misinformation?

I know CC is committed to CA analysis but I have to express my frustration that so much of the media sleptwalk their way into this when it was so easy to see. It is also very easy for those of us who work with language to recognise when vcertain boundaries? have been breached an dthere is only one reason for it - the open internet from the start was predicated on a left of centre philosophy (Stanford, open source, collectivism) that was an own goal for democracy once the right realised no on ewould take control because it was not part of the 'spirit' to do so.

Yes. But I can also Google "what does BAME mean"- "The acronym BAME stands for Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic and is defined as all ethnic groups except White ethnic groups. It does not relate to country origin or affiliation."

So BAME means non-white.

BAME does not mean "minority ethnicity", otherwise it would include Polish people, Irish people, Travellers (who are always left out... Of everything. Seen any headlines on how covid has affected the travelling community?! Me neither.)

Designation of ethnicity based on skin colour alone lacks finesse, in my opinion, as two people can be the same on the Dulux colour chart, and vastly different ethnicities, or very different colours, bit from the same ethnic group.

SimonJT. Thank you.

BAME stands for Black AND minority ethnic groups. Minority groups can be any colour. Jews are a minority ethnic group. Our Jewishness is measurable in DNA tests.

Sorry Black Asian and minority ethnic groups I mean

No. It only includes non-white minority groups.

Please Google the term. Sigh.

BAME means "not white".

If you are white, and tell people you are "BAME" expect rolled eyes.

I feel like I need educating on this as I don't really get it. I know wileys tweets were offensive but I've seen worse things.

www.london.gov.uk/questions/2018/0064#:~:text=The%20acronym%20BAME%20stands%20for,to%20country%20origin%20or%20affiliation.

metro.co.uk/2020/06/17/what-bame-stand-report-finds-racism-behind-higher-coronavirus-death-rate-ethnic-minority-groups-12865189/

"Sadiq Khan previously defined the term by saying: ‘In this classification, BAME comprises all Mixed, Asian, Black and Other (non white) ethnicities."

BAME means brown. Or black. It doesn't mean white.

This definition by the London mayor in 2018 includes other white ethnic minorities not just black and brown ethic minorities

It EXACTLY doesn't.

It says EXCEPT white. EXCEPT. It's ethnicities, EXCEPT the white ones. He then lists the white ones that are EXCLUDED.

BAME means not white.

Which is all tangential.

Or is maybe absolutely relevant, that there's a perception that antisemitism isn't as bad as racism, because it's against mostly white people?

I do think you can care about BLM AND being against antisemitism. And care about discrimination against any other group. And everyone should.

Just in the last week I have heard two people talk of Jewish Privilege

Along the lines of White Privilege doesn’t exist but Jewish Privilege does

an dthere is only one reason for it

Um, that comes across a bit like you're holding the "left of centre" people who worked on internet responsible for the behaviour of the tech-savvy far-right antisemitic white supremacists who worked on or use the internet.

Did you really mean that?

'Cos I'm pretty sure tech-savvy far-right antisemitic white supremacists are responsible for their own behaviour. On and off the internet.

@PerkingFAintly no, that was badly written - should have been two separate sentences. I meant those who breached the boundaries of acceptable language knew what they were opening the door to.,

Oh I see what you meant. (I think!)

I often write so badly myself (usually edit out something vital), that I thought I should ask!

Talking of which, I realise I completely edited out a reference to MN in a post of mine above – so it now makes no sense and I'm just wittering about general media coverage of antisemitism. Duh.

You have to be inhuman not to be pro-Jewish, given the unmatched atrocities inflicted on the Jewish people over the millenia but especially in the last century- in living memory, ffs. If you read about the Holocaust or learn about Anne Frank- or the unbearably high number of other Jewish children exterminated like vermin by the Nazis- or even just watch a film like The Pianist, and fail to be tormented by the knowledge that YOU are of the same species that inflicted these horrors, and Nazism not only COULD have manifested itself here in exactly the same way (Hitler was not fucking special; the German people were no worse than us) but actually is, provably, on the rise here, then you are utterly, irretrievably fucked in the head and heart, IMO.

I am very heartened to see this thread.

@Durgasarrow

I am very heartened to see this thread.

I'm just sad it has to exist at all.

I used to wear my Star of David necklace but stopped as a young adult when three guys yelled at me on the London tube for killing Jesus. No one stood up for me. I fear for my children.

The Gestapo-like threads on MN asking if people should report others for breaking lockdown rules just go to show how some ache to be 'good citizens'. That's all well and good if the rules are just and and not racist but terrifying if those in power are neither of those things.

@DDemelza

Absolutely. But I suspect that there is some cognitive dissonance at play whereby people cannot acknowledge the reality of what actually happened - the actual truth and then alternative histories fill the void?

It’s the fact that it happened relatively recently, that it happened in Europe not ‘over there’ in countries/societies where we can say they are not as advanced as us and perhaps a fear of recognising what the human psyche is capable of doing to its fellow citizens?

I don’t know - I wonder how much is being taught. We can cover it in English through texts that put the child’s perspective to the fore but still, it has to be taught as fact.

@ToyKitchenSink

What brought it home to me was when I was out in central London, years ago with a friend and as we walked past a club the bouncer made a comment. My friend said something back and the bouncer came towards us threateningly so my friend apologised sarcastically and we walked away. Afterwards, he told me that the guy had made a reference a horrible AS gesture and comment. This had gone completely over my head at the time but I guess that was the intention. The bouncer must have been looking intentionally for someone Jewish to say it too (and I wouldn’t have known he was Jewish unless he had told me ).

I am ashamed to say i told my friend he shouldn’t have responded and that he should have just ignored the guy.

It's hard to know what to do for the best. Jeopardising one's physical safety to make a point (though an important one) isn't always the best course of action.

serenada

You only have to look at posts about lockdown and the NHS clapping to see how quickly people can turn on one another for not conforming.
The number of posts about people reporting minor infringements that they perceived their neighbours had done to the police.
Or people making it known their absence at the NHS clap was noted

To see how quickly people can be turned into reporting on their neighbours, friends and family.

I am ashamed to say i told my friend he shouldn’t have responded and that he should have just ignored the guy.

That’s just it. Not only the rampant anti-Semitism, but also the constant pressure to just accept it.