Antisemitism online

[serenada]

Isn't there something we can do? I remember a post on here, years ago, by a mum who was very frightened and her post stood out to me.

It isn't right that the Jewish community have to defend themselves alone here - can't we do something to show support and let people know they are not alone in this?

People can give a fuck about Russia and the Ukraine, the actions of China, women in India, Saudi, and the actions of the Israeli government, without being antisemitic, though. People can care about more than one thing.

I was reassured that Corbyn's antisemitism made him unelectable, though. It's still unacceptable to the majority, I'm sure.

Whereas the rampant islamphobia and anti-black sentiment within the Conservative party made them electable...? How do you think the minorities that are targeted by those currently in power feel?

All forms of racism are wrong, and I don't want this post to come across as 'whatboutery'. I myself supported Corbyn until I acknowledged that the Labour party had a major issue with anti-semitism (which I'm hopeful will soon be rooted out). I was very much aware of this issue because it had made mainstream headlines for the last 2 years. Corbyn has been harangued in the media for this, yet Boris seems to get a free ride, even though, imo, he and his colleagues have been far more overtly racist. It seems that blatant racism towards muslims/immigrants/black youths is the 'right' kind of racism.

When someone say I am not a racist but...it's obvious. As west left was highly influenced by Soviet propaganda (Orwell was very critical of that) for me it is also obvious.
What is different about Russia and Ukraine from women in India etc. Is that Russians annexed part of Ukraine for economical and political purposes. Something that many believe Israel is guilty of.

Someone says*

Seems an irrelevant part of the topic, but just to add;

I had always thought the “Christ killers” thing came from Judas (The baddest jew of all) selling Jesus out? 🤷‍♀️

Of course anti-Semitism is racism.

anti-Semitism is abhorrent. It does not surprise me one bit that MN had been silent on it. The recent threads on racism and BLM showed that when you scratched the surface, racism and racist tropes were prevalent - and those were threads which were largely supportive of BLM.

I don't have a view on Israel simply because I don't know enough about it, and its a sensitive and contentious subject.

I live near a Jewish community. I do not want to lose that because I love the diversity of my surrounding area, which is melting pot of different nationalities, ethnicities and religions. I agree with a PP who pointed out that if people feel strongly about not supporting Israel, then perhaps they should work on making Jews feel safe and welcomed so that they wouldn't feel that a right if return was necessary.

@SheepandCow I don’t think whoopi Goldberg is Jewish. I don’t think that Goldberg is her actual last name but you are right, there are quite a few black Jews and a very big Ethiopian Jewish community (mostly now in Israel).

The existence of black Jews doesn't make antisemitism the same as racism. Just that the existence of gay Jews doesn't make antisemitism homophobia.

The stories and struggles, and solutions, are different.

The existence of black Jews doesn't make antisemitism the same as racism.

I never said it did.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/discrimination-because-of-race-religion-or-belief/discrimination-because-of-race/#what_is_‘race%27

“Race means being part of a group of people who are identified by their race,colour,

nationality, citizenship, or ethnic or national origins.

If you are part of one of these groups and you experience discrimination, this counts as race discrimination.”

AnnaJKing the vast majority of the population would agree with your definition and understanding of what racism means. However, those who believe in Critical Race Theory have a different definition which would exclude anyone who is ‘white’ from being able to experience racism.

It doesn’t mean they are correct.

Have you got links to these threads as I can’t remember seeing any.

Why do we use the phrase anti-Semitism and not anti-jewish? Can't you be a Semite without being Jewish? Is racism directed at Arabs of any religion anti-Semitism?

I remember growing up and a strong anti Arab sentiment being expressed. This was years ago and I won't use the term used for fear of offending people but it was definitely anti Arab.

“The root word Semite gives the false impression that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic people, e.g., including Arabs, Assyrians and Arameans. The compound word Antisemitismus ("antisemitism") was first used in print in Germany in 1879[6] as a scientific-sounding term for Judenhass ("Jew-hatred"),[7][8][9][10][11][12] and this has been its common use since then.[13][7][14]”

From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

The recent threads on racism and BLM showed that when you scratched the surface, racism and racist tropes were prevalent - and those were threads which were largely supportive of BLM.

Agreed.

Thanks Anna

@TheRealMcKenna

AnnaJKing the vast majority of the population would agree with your definition and understanding of what racism means. However, those who believe in Critical Race Theory have a different definition which would exclude anyone who is ‘white’ from being able to experience racism.

It doesn’t mean they are correct.

Well they can explain to me what I should have called it when a member of my family was violently attacked because of their race then, can’t they.

The idea that white privilege extends to those of us in persecuted in minorities is offensive as heck.

@lilylion Jews as a whole are in this weird situation where we're too white for the far left, but not white enough for the far right. You've got one side saying we have white privilege and the other saying that we're trying to pollute the white race or that we're behind mass immigration and it's a big Jew plot to undermine the white race. Personally, as a convert, I consider myself to be white. According to neo-Nazi types, people like me are race traitors.

@Tappering EXACTLY. You don't want more Jews running off to Israel? Don't make us feel unsafe in our home countries.

If someone wanted to learn more about being Jewish or Israel what documentaries or dramas would you recommend? I have watched Shtisel and a documentary where a son or grandson was clearing out the home of an elderly relative that had died in Israel. He then traced their story back to Nazi Germany. Can't remember the name of it.

[quote coronabeer23]@SheepandCow I don’t think whoopi Goldberg is Jewish. I don’t think that Goldberg is her actual last name but you are right, there are quite a few black Jews and a very big Ethiopian Jewish community (mostly now in Israel).[/quote]
I just googled as I was sure I'd heard her speak about it. Perhaps it's not very well known.
www.thejc.com/news/uk/whoopi-goldberg-i-m-jewish-and-i-talk-to-god-1.23000

I only mentioned black Jews because some people seemed to think all Jews are white. Someone I grew up with is white Jewish and they married a black man (Christian background). Their DC is both black and Jewish ethnicity wise. Neither parent is religious.

Regardless of the skin colour, anti-Semitism is racism.

Jews as a whole are in this weird situation where we're too white for the far left, but not white enough for the far right. You've got one side saying we have white privilege and the other saying that we're trying to pollute the white race or that we're behind mass immigration and it's a big Jew plot to undermine the white race. Personally, as a convert, I consider myself to be white. According to neo-Nazi types, people like me are race traitors.

Thank you. I didn't know how to articulate this.

What about converts? If antisemitism is racism, does that mean that if a convert experiences antisemitism, it is racism?

Because then you reach Rachel Dolezal territory.

Or are converts not real Jews?

If antisemitism is racism, can a white British convert have someone also white British (same race) be racist towards them? If not, what would you call it if someone of the same race was antisemitic to someone of the same race? Is the same action racism if between a Jew and antisemite of different races, but not of the same race?

I think if you think people of the exact same race can be racist towards each other, then that's insulting to groups who experience racism.

I'm not saying it's less bad. I'm saying black, Asian, and other BAME people experience racism. Jews experience antisemitism. Lesbians and gays experience homophobia. All bad. All hate. All discrimination. But not all racism.

I know several BAME Jews (not converts)

Jews are an ethnicity. The Jewish religion is a separate thing. There's a genetic ethnic background. For example, we know Jews have predisposition to certain diseases including the BRCA gene that can cause breast and ovarian cancer.

Prejudice based on someone's religion (convert or not) is ignorant prejudice but not racism. It's still wrong. Thinking about it, perhaps the discrimination aimed at converts is born out of racism. The hate is motivated by a hatred of Jews - and a visibly religious one is a more obvious target?