Antisemitism online

[serenada]

Isn't there something we can do? I remember a post on here, years ago, by a mum who was very frightened and her post stood out to me.

It isn't right that the Jewish community have to defend themselves alone here - can't we do something to show support and let people know they are not alone in this?

@PhilSwagielka Yes I am but my husband isn't. I only buy meat that isn't killed without stunning first and will always hate the way humans treat animals with no empathy or respect! I dont give a damn about religion just the way animals are tortured before death.

I’ve made a stand to call out all racism when I see it
But I have not seen the post that you speak of
But yanbu to note this and be distressed by it

I did see that deleted post. It didn't just say that anti-Semitism is racism.

I probably shouldn't repeat loads of it, because of quoting a deleted post. But actually I'd struggle to repeat it, because it was quite jumbled and hard to tell exactly what it WAS trying to say.

@nicky7654 At least you're consistent. A lot of the anti-halal/kosher brigade claim they care about animal welfare but they still eat meat, and they get mad about things like baked beans and cornflakes, neither of which are animals. Kosher just means a Jew can eat it. Kashrut also applies to fruit and vegetables (like grapes, there's a ton of laws about grapes, although I'm not super observant myself).

Jesus was Jewish but that didn't stop his fan club from persecuting Jews for hundreds of years. And yes, it was the Romans who crucified him but we get blamed for selling him out or something. Don't even get me started on Christians ripping off Jewish rituals like the Passover seder and making them about Jesus.

Also Nation of Islam are scumbags and not real Muslims at all.

"If someone criticises Tony Blair, we don't claim that's anti catholism." - no. But TB felt unable to "come out" as Catholic until he left office. I don't know if Jewish MPs feel they have to conceal their religion in the same way? What's the law about the monarch marrying a Jew?

Also Nation of Islam are scumbags and not real Muslims at all.

Is that who Nick Cannon was referring to?

I am really puzzled by the Christ killer stuff - as a pp says, we are taught P.Pilate (a Roman) ordered it and it is quite a key thing that it was a Roman. It is certainly not a Catholic lesson. There was something about converting Jews/praying for conversion (?) that was removed from the Tridentine (? not sure) mass and I thought there was talk of returning to the old mass a few years ago but I may be totally wrong with this.

If Irish people in an Irish pub in the UK said that to a Polish person - well, the irony! There's just no answer to that kind of nonsense and I am shocked to hear it as I thought the Poles and Irish had established a very good relationship with lots of marriage between the two.

I know that the records for WW2 Pope were opened up to scholars last year and that many academics wanted to explore them. They will cover exactly what the Vatican knew and did during that time and include the previously sealed documents of that Pope.

I would be interested in what a non-Catholic historian finds - I think the whole Christian Church needs to explore their role and why they felt/were so passive (threat of communism in the East, we are told) but certainly people were going to confession and reporting back events to parish priests who presumably were feeding that info to the bishops.

I am really puzzled by the Christ killer stuff

I’m not puzzled by it at all. It’s just an excuse for antisemitic people to be antisemitic.

It’s also a fundamental and deliberate misunderstanding of Christ’s sacrifice and the fundamental basis of Christianity.

The Apostle’s Creed states ‘suffered under Pontius Pilate’ ffs. It’s fairly basic stuff.

It’s just an excuse for antisemitic people to be antisemitic.

Yes - agree.

I’m not puzzled by it at all. It’s just an excuse for antisemitic people to be antisemitic.

This.

What's the law about the monarch marrying a Jew?

I have a feeling they can’t unless that person converts to C of E because the monarch is the head of the Church of England

I don’t think most Jewish mp’s hide it although given what poor luciana Berger and Ruth Smeeth went through you can hardly blame them if they did. There are a fair few Jewish MP, it’s not particularly relevant to their day jobs but I don’t think they hide it.

I am really puzzled by the Christ killer stuff

My understanding of that was that Pontius Pilate suggests to mob that Christ maybe is the person that they should choose to pardon but they are adamant that he must die and they ask for Barabas to be pardoned instead, despite considerable prompting to the contrary.

I am also sure that it is used as an excuse for antisemitic behavior and even if true it is beyond ridiculous to blame a whole race thousands of years later for the behavior of one small group of people.
( leaving aside the whole idea that Christ was born understanding his fate etc etc)

@coronabeer23 Google says it's only Catholics that have been specifically prohibited in law from marrying the monarch.

I think anti-semitism is abhorrent, I understand that having a Jewish state and homeland is essential, given recent history. I don't agree anti-semitism is racism, in the same vein as that experienced by those having to say 'black lives matter' though. It's discrimination. But it's a different set of baggage and discrimination to that experienced by black people, and other non-white ethnicities. Bigots are bigots, and so many anti-semites are also racists, but many are not, some are one and not the other, in the same way someone can be homophobic, but not racist.

I'm not saying it's less bad. I don't think BLM protesters have to take on other fights. They certainly shouldn't be shitting on any other group, though.

Just to be clear, guys I meant that I was puzzled at people saying that, in the name of being Catholic. It doesn't make sense, is not what we are taught and doesn't fit with how we are taught about Judaism. It is clear to me that it is anti semitism trying to masquerade as something else and as someone said upthread, part of a foundation that was built up over the years. I don't doubt it was said historically, just that it is not taught.

As an Anglican I was taught that the crowd insisted on the crucifixion of Christ despite Pilate suggesting several times he should be pardoned, Pilate then agreed to follow the crowds wishes and washed his hands formally of the decision.

I'm not religious at all now but I can see how that could be turned in Jews killed Jesus, it ignores the fact they were all Jews of course including him.

@serenada

Not taught post Nostra Aetate. Was taught as @Lakesidesummer says prior to that in the catholic church, and still in other churches.

Jesus being a Jew is only acknowledged when as @PhilSwagielka says Christians want to appropriate things like the Seder. Which is hugely embarrassingly rude. (And, in my opinion, anti-semitic)

At a basic level, I wonder how much of it is that people cannot bear there are "clubs" that they aren't, can't be, or don't want them as members? When those members are happy being members, but don't necessarily look to convert.

I'm sort of comparing it to the women's rights issues, but also anti-catholicism, anti-freemasonry. Basically people hate that a community could be happy being itself without them.

I'm prepared to be shot down for that thought. It just feels so playground "they won't let me be in their club, so i'll bully them." Only with bombs. Or genocide.

I know so many Scousers who hated Luciana Berger and I never understood why other than her not liking Jeremy Corbyn. Was she really that hated on Merseyside?

Actually, scrap that theory. Everyone hates the Jehovah's witnesses, and they definitely want you to join their club, so it can't be that.

People often forget that not all Jews are white. Black people can be Jewish too. Former MP (now Baroness) Oona King, for example. Whoopi Goldberg is another.

People tend to take the 'G-d's chosen people' thing out of context as well. It's not saying 'Jews > everyone else'. It's saying that G-d picked us for an experiment, basically. It's hard to articulate.

And then antisemitism and racism probably intersect. (And if you're a woman, too!)

That doesn't make antisemitism a subset of racism. It's a subset of discrimination and bigotry, but it isn't racism in it's own.

But one person can be a victim of several types of discrimination at once. See black women dying in childbirth.

@SheepandCow Yep, and the Ethiopian Jewish community as well.

To every one who says: I am not antisemitic, I am only critical about Israel/ I am anti Zionism.This phrase was coined in Moscow during Six-day war when Soviets decided to support Arabs. This phrase was used to expel people to Israel.

I belive that if people would know the whole history of Israel they would be ashamed of themselves (being only critical).

Oh, also if you don't give a fuck about Ukrainians fighting Russians, or Hamas treatment of other Palestinians or Palestinians in pre war Syria, in Jordania you are not concerned admirer of Human Rights. You are just antisemitic.