AIBU to leave 8 & 10 year alone to go out to dinner?

[BereftOfInk]

DH has suggested we go out to dinner together and leave the DC home alone. His parents often did this once he turned 10. I don't know if I'm being over protective as I was never left alone as a child. We live in a block of flats and would let our direct neighbours know they were alone, DC know them and could go and knock if they needed help for any reason. They offered to do this a while ago, but we thought the DC were too young so didn't. Neighbour suggested it as it's what her parents did when she was young (she wouldn't want to sit in our flat with them).

Get them ready for bed, stick a film on and let them go to bed when tired/fall asleep on the sofa. Acceptable or not?

Interesting discussion! I leave mine at home to go running for an hour with a much older (adult) sibling in the house (but often asleep or in her room). How is that different from a adult neighbour in another flat?

I've never considered it neglectful to leave them if there's another adult in, the adult knows I'm out, and the children know to call on the other adult if they need help.

fire? gas leak? real burglar? imaginary burglar? calls the police on imaginary burglar? burst pipe? boiler blows up? power cut? fuses blows? leaves the freezer door open? blocks toilet? dropped lock? can't get out? get locked out? sees gory or sexually explicit TV programme? electric shock? light bulb blows? nuisance phone calls? Threatening phone calls?gets online unsupervised? finds pornography? gets into a chat room?cut finger? choking? nightmare? wets bed? decides to try out the alcohol store?vomits? fit? gets something in eye? argument? fight? one lies about the other? One involves the other in a cover up?tells their teacher they have been left alone all night? enough said?

Nope it's not safe and too much responsibility for the 10 year old

How is that different from a adult neighbour in another flat?
Personally, if my child was molested in some way and it was by a family member, I'd feel terrible but not guilty, as long as I had no idea the family member was like that. But if the child was molested by a neighbour, I'd feel guilty. Even though statistically, it's more likely to be a family member, that's partly because it's normal for family to have access to a child.

Scenario. A fire starts while you’re out. Would a 10 and 8 year old know how to deal with it? Of course not. Far too young to be left.

Horrendous idea

It's illegal to leave a child in charge of another child.

If your older child was 14 they can be left in the house alone for short period, but you need a child of at least 15/16 present if you want to leave an 8 year old.

It's utterly selfish to be making plans like this and leaving your children at home alone.

There were no supermarkets who, during lockdown, said you could t bring children. Single parents had to take their child/children.

If there are two parents why not have the other parent stay in while you shopped ?

Before you say anything about working etc, both myself and my husband worked throughout the lockdown, and our child was unable to go to nursery, and many more people were in the same position

Never would I do this, and I’d always be wary of neighbours unless I knew them extremely well.

Cultural norms might be fine in safer countries like Germany and Japan, but Britain is not that kind of place sadly

Jesus just go for your dinner and don't worry OP - that's clearly what you want to do, so I don't really understand why you are asking us what you should do? If you're sure its so safe then just go. Who care what we think??

@BereftOfInk

South of Germany. And when they went back in May, parents were forbidden from school grounds. We know all the neighbours in our block and would certainly leave the DC with them all in an emergency. They all independently offered at one point or another as they know I've no family nearby.

I can believe this. I have friends in Germany, and their children took themselves up school and back from around 5. Those of in the friendship group in the UK were aghast at the though. However, it is very common.

That said, it's not something I'd be comfortable with. My children are 9 and 7 and if nothing else, I wouldn't trust them not to beat seven bells out of each other.

I started letting my ds1 babysit from being 13 (nearly 14) for his brothers who were 7 and 11. This felt fine and left them alone a year earlier if it was just the older 2 boys.
10 and 8 is a bit on the young side imo but I do think some of these responses are a bit ott!

But if the child was molested by a neighbour, I'd feel guilty.

Just because I feel like arguing black is white.... what if you replace neighbour by babysitter?
I'm not sure why my seemingly nice neighbour who we've known for over 5 years would be more risk or less responsible than a random person who we found off the internet that we've never met before.

Absolutely not.

I'd leave a 10 year old for maybe half an hour during day time hours, if I had to pop to the shop or round to a neighbours or something.
An 8 year old, absolutely not.

The fact you're asking suggests you know you shouldn't do it.

Also, what if - heaven forbid - you and DH had an accident and couldn't return home at the expected time?

Would you expect your neighbour to raise the alarm if, say, you weren't home by 11? (that's an unfair expectation to place on them, to expect them to stay up until they hear you come home)

Or what would you expect your children to do if they wake up in the morning and you're not there?

My children are 12 and 8.
I would not leave my 8 year old with my eldest. For a start they sometimes bicker and argue and that would cause hell if there wasn't an adult present.
I just wouldn't trust it.

“UsedUpUsername“ but the OP does live in Germany and her children I presume have grown up there, hence her discussing German law and norms. It’s not completely irrelevant

It's illegal to leave a child in charge of another child.
OP is in Germany, where children of this age can be left alone.

what if you replace neighbour by babysitter?
I think I'd still feel guilty, but I wouldn't be afraid of censure from other people, as having a babysitter in your home is more socially acceptable than having the neighbour in another flat. Funny, though, I agree.

In "A History of Childhood" there's a description of how some mediaeval parents left their tiny daughter to wander round alone, and she fell in a lake and drowned. They were devastated, but saw it as plain bad luck. Times change!

I've got that book - it's both fascinating and (often) heartbreaking in equal measures.

I really don't know what the point of this thread is. OP you are in Germany where this kind of thing is much more common (I have lived there and the Netherlands with children) but on a UK site you are going to get responses from an overwhelmingly UK perspective where this is far less usual and much less acceptable. Also, you have obviously decided that you are going to dinner anyway and nothing anyone says is going to change your mind so did you just start this thread to pass some time because you were bored and fancied an argument with some strangers?!

I think 10 is a little young to watch an 8 year old but ppl saying they would call child services on you are crazy.

Maybe OP is actually German and conducting a social experiment :)

Just in case anyone has said this, it isn't modern over protectiveness to think the children are too young. I'm a child of the 60's and my parents never left me and my brothers at that age. That was a time of benign neglect too, where we would leave the house all day and come back at teatime. We frequently played in chalk pits and walked country lanes alone, but still my parents waited until we were in our teens to leave us alone at night.

OK, Germany?

Ignore what I wrote then.

Still think they are too young.