AIBU to leave 8 & 10 year alone to go out to dinner?

[BereftOfInk]

DH has suggested we go out to dinner together and leave the DC home alone. His parents often did this once he turned 10. I don't know if I'm being over protective as I was never left alone as a child. We live in a block of flats and would let our direct neighbours know they were alone, DC know them and could go and knock if they needed help for any reason. They offered to do this a while ago, but we thought the DC were too young so didn't. Neighbour suggested it as it's what her parents did when she was young (she wouldn't want to sit in our flat with them).

Get them ready for bed, stick a film on and let them go to bed when tired/fall asleep on the sofa. Acceptable or not?

No - please don't!

My parents left me in charge of my brother and sisters from about the same age, and it's awful! It's quite frightening, and if anything happens, even if they have someone to call on, it's worrying for a child.

no, I have only just started doing this on occasion with my DC were 13 and 10. And I was less than a mile away and was back home by 10. I wouldn't have done it when they were younger

I wouldnt leave an 10 and 8 year old at any time. Think if you already leave them alone for an, hour then what's the difference in going for dinner? You have already left them alone before, so surely what makes you question it now..?
Night time.
More than an hour.
Tiredness.

As opposed to just having been fed, allowed to watch something when they're not usually allowed to and the promise of an ice cream if they behave themselves.

OK, say there is a fire in your building. Do you honestly think that your kids will be able to get out in a potentially smoked filled hallway, must likely in the pitch dark. Your neighbours may or may not remember they are there.

What happens if the two of you get knockdown/have a car accident on route to the restaurant and are unconscious. How long would those kids be on their own?

No! So dangerous. If something happened no one would know for hours. Also a block of flats! So many people would know they're alone. Makes me shudder to think about it.

I know that social norms about dc going to school alone from an early age are different in Germany, so I can see they are probably different around leaving dc at home alone also.

That said, I think that your dc are far too young to be left home alone, particularly at night. I'd be worried about them feeling frightened, or about them not knowing what to do if something unexpected or dangerous happens.

The German guidelines are current, and yes, things are more like they were when I was a child in 1970s Essex than in modern Britain.
Children walking to school at age 5 would be pretty unusual around these parts (Dresden), though, as children up here don't normally start school until age 6 (mine were almost 7), and even then most parents go with them for at least the first few months, until they get used to it. So this walking to school alone at age 5 is not "German" but Bavarian or wherever OP is.

Your dh does not speak for all Germans, OP; and be very wary if he starts trying to shame you into doing things his way by accusing you of being "too" British. That's bullying. My bf (from NRW) has a 10yo and has only just started leaving her alone at home for longer times, even though she has been going to school alone for some time. He wouldn't yet leave her at home in the evening while we went out to eat. My exh from Meck-Pomm wouldn't have left the kids alone at that age in the evening.

You would never forgive yourself if something happened to your children. Don't do it; the risk is too high.

Hmm, we regularly leave kids home (now 11 and almost 9) when we go shopping or a walk in the evening.
Somehow I'm not sure I would go for a dinner though :-)
However if you feel it's OK, kids have a phone to call you if needed, then go for it.
(and asking on UK based site for advise in this matter is probably not the best idea :-) try some local ones :-) People there would understand better the way of life).

Why are you asking? You clearly think it’s fine, despite everybody else telling you it is clearly neglectful at best and something terrible could happen at worst.

Is a meal out really worth that risk? Get a babysitter or a takeout from a nice restaurant.

I mean.... you don’t sound too bothered so I assume you’re just gonna do it, so why ask? Everyone’s just kicking off. I’m sure it would be fine but I would feel so bad if something happened, choke, fire etc.... sure there’s someone next door but in the time the other kid has figured out somethings wrong? Ran next door? It’s quite a lot to put on a child tbh. Personally I wouldn’t do it just for how guilty I would feel IF something happened. But it probs will be fine 🤷🏻‍♀️

Either take them with you or get a babysitter, but don't leave them home alone.

OP, are they generally good kids? How long are you planning on leaving for? How far away etc? These are all things to take into consideration regarding it. Personally, I was allowed out to play at 8, left alone much younger but classed as abused here in the UK. Like you say, Germany has different guidance to the UK. Follow your gut. But, deep down, knowing that you've asked the question, you know what the correct answer is in your heart of hearts and what you feel is best to do.

Are you suggesting folks need to fuck off out socialising of a night and leave eight year olds and ten year olds alone so they can do secondary just fine?
No. Not in the slightest. But, there have been several posters expressing incredulity that small children can be allowed to walk home alone from school or that an 8 and 10 year old can reasonably be left for an hour in the day. I wouldn't leave my 10 year old alone to go out for dinner, but he does happily stay at home for a couple of hours in the day if I'm going somewhere and he doesn't want to come with me.

No, don't do that. Maybe lunch time if you are not far away and they could ring you but, frankly, I wouldn't like to leave a ten year old in charge of an eight year old.

It doesn't matter what you and husband did or didn't do when you were children, we live in the here and now. Get someone to baby sit or take them over to someone's house.

For me it's the 10yr old having to consider the 8yr old-that's too much responsibility imo.

The 10yr old alone, maybe.

But then evening & daytime can feel different.

I remember being in the house alone at 14 & feeling unsettled.

Mumsnet: 100% say no
OP: but I'm still right

Sigh.

@midnightstar66

There's no point comparing it to other countries. These kids have been used to the freedoms and responsibilities form the start. Lives are set up for it and they aren't going to be put on the child protection register if something should happen. It's not shocking that 5 year olds in other countries walk home. My mum at 5 used to walk and get 2 busses across town to school and back at 5 in Edinburgh but that doesn't happen now!

How many years ago was that?

I used to walk home for lunch when I was at primary. Quiet estate and it was 60 years ago!

@BereftOfInk absolutely yes :) but that's just me (obviously reading this). At 8 and 10 they are old enough to know when hungry, thirsty, call you, call 999, and the neighbours are at hand if anything. Also the kids will love it.

@TakemedowntoPotatoCity FWIW I said I think it's OK to leave them. Helicopter parenting all over here...

What the fuck ... no. Pay a babysitter. Can’t believe people are this irresponsible

Since when do 'cultural norms' override common sense?
They don’t, and they shouldn’t. Which is why I (and another poster) said, if you don’t like the cultural norms, go with your gut, and don’t be pushed into doing something you’re not comfortable with.

In 1970s Essex I also used to walk to school alone at age 6 or 7, mainly as my mum was a working single mum. I remember quickly learning which route the bullies took :S and also dodging a bloke who approached us with kittens and said there were more at his house. (We had seen some sort of stranger danger film and didn't go.)

In "A History of Childhood" there's a description of how some mediaeval parents left their tiny daughter to wander round alone, and she fell in a lake and drowned. They were devastated, but saw it as plain bad luck. Times change!

This far too risky IMO! Please dont do this .The world is a very different place now and especially living in a block of flats ,people are coming and going at all hours of the day.Can you not go out for Supper with the DC?Lots of family friendly places ,and there will be a 10% discount avaliable for midweek bookings .DC get a chance to dress up and have a nice time as well! A 10 year old in charge of a younger sibling is not fair on her at all.