David Beckham and mental health.....am I missing something?

[maudavery]

This is what DB in convo with Prince William has said about talking about one's feelings:

I made a mistake in '98 [getting sent off against Argentina in the 1998 World Cup] and the reaction at the time was pretty brutal.
"If social media was around when I was going through that time, it would have been a whole different story. But I was lucky, I had a support system within Manchester United, the manager, and obviously family.
"But did I feel it was okay at the time to go to someone and say I need help? No, because it was a different era, and I just felt that I had to keep it all in and deal with it myself.

So he cocked up, took flak for it and then "had to deal with it himself", although he acknowledges he had a lot of support. Is this so bad? Isn't this just taking responsibility? Isn't there a lot to be said for this kind of stoicism? Whereas now everything pathologised and we need therapy for everything.

I take his point about social media and agree it can be poisonous especially for younger people but I don't really think his point about having to deal with things himself is so terrible.

I think I myself am pretty strong mentally

To suggest it's impossible and you can never recover from MH problems as has been suggested here seems defeatist.

🤦🏻‍♀️ You really do have no clue do you? I give up. Go and educate yourself.

@maudavery I think having strong parental figures is critical. I should have got help in my teens, but my mother was a violent woman who wouldn't spend Christmas. She was in fact easily the reason for my difficulties. I genuinely think that if I had received support at a young age, that I wouldn't have experienced a life-time of mental health difficulties.

For KM, I think yes, discipline, exercise, diet, supportive family and friends are all crucial for her. She certainly does epitomise a strong woman. I know she does a lot of work around early years which she believes are critical. She's all about the outdoors too - think she designed a sensory garden for children to play in as one of her initiatives. She is actually working behind the scenes to tackle the root cause of issues.

@JamesArthursEyelashes what exactly is uneducated about what I have said?

@Komacho I really do, but from where I am standing, MH issues are getting worse and our therapy culture is not helping.

@JamesArthursEyelashes are you saying it isn't possible to recover?

I don't think we can assess if a stranger we only know through the media is mentally strong. It's been proven untrue many times with celebrity breakdowns, addictions, and suicides.

I have had symptoms of C-PTSD since I was 8 and, no matter how well I manage myself, I will always have it. That's not 'defeatist', that's actually the stoic ideal of accepting reality so I can focus on the things I can do.

There are skills people can work on, but it depends on the condition - there is no one set of skills for everyone just like there is no one set of physical skills that works for everyone. Trauma-conditions, for example, often benefit from skills for re-regulating like writing out fears and resentments at a set time to clear the mind and avoiding ruminating triggers. People who disassociate shouldn't use mindfulness meditation that can trigger disassociation but may benefit from a more grounded form of meditation like walking mantras that keep the body and thoughts busy. Exercises that involve following instructions, particularly directional and cross-body ones, have been shown to help both.

People saying “oh just be stoic” are the problem as their attitude stops people speaking out and getting appropriate help.

The thing is, they don't actually want us to be stoic, they just want us to not talk about things they don't like. No one ever suggests we should consider our deaths more or not react to the good things in life or hold knowledge as the highest virtue. They just want us to not not do things they view as complaining. Like sure, self-medication and addictions are rife in the community, but not everyone does it so the rest just aren't "mentally strong" enough.

I briefly studied sociology and typically there is a spike in suicide rates in times of recession and such. I would expect a spike following CV to be honest. You can see the MH of mothers here deteriorating day by day with lockdown and restrictions and such.
I think certain cultures (ours) put huge pressure on children to achieve academically now too and the school system here seems aligned with that.

Reasons are multifactorial. Not getting enough fresh air, exercise, too much screen time, parents working night and day etc. etc. Times have changed.

Reasons are multifactorial. Not getting enough fresh air, exercise, too much screen time, parents working night and day etc. etc. Times have changed.

So this, and KM highlighting the importance of early years, contact with nature etc

Which other people have highlighted would all suggest that there are things that can be done to help with the current MH crisis.

So why is it so bad to suggest that there could be solutions?? Genuinely struggling to see what I said that was so offensive @JamesArthursEyelashes

There's an Irish guy called Bressie who has a podcast called Where is my mind. Just last week he and his producer won the British Creative Podcast of the year or something. I've never listened to it to be honest, but it might be worth a shot. He struggled with his MH as a teen, but was an avid rugby player which possibly got him through his difficult times. Like Beckham I suppose, he had his team mates and such. It's aimed at teens I think so might help the pp too for her son. Not sure if it's his thing. We're all different.

He's also in a band called The Blizzards and is quite easy on the eye. Think he's on Facebook just as Bressie

OP - it's a shame there can't be this discussion on MN without a pile on from people taking personal offence. It's considered an outrage to suggest that someone can overcome adversity without pills or CBT or whatever. Young adults are almost brainwashed into thinking they need help, support or medication. If we were able to discover the skills to nurture our hinterland, it would be easier for those who really do need professional help to access it.

MNHQ need to get Kate on here for a webchat!

Because for some of us there is never going to be a solution. I've had PTSD for nearly 3 decades, I'm never not going to have it, I can only manage it.

Because for many of these things, the solution to prevent more is systemic. Dealing with power imbalances in our society, the silencing of victims, and more.

Because walks outside can help, but making it an individualistic thing is why so many of us struggle to get the support we need. When you're mental illness is the result of structural inequality, it can feel like a slap in the face to say we just needed more outside time as kids.

Ok so maybe Solution is the wrong word, but it seems to me that if you can manage it as you describe then that is a great thing.

I agree that systemic and structural changes are important but these could included more widespread education re the value of a connection with nature, this being built into education curricula, "prescriptions" of time outdoors etc

If HQ could get KM on for a webchat, I think I'd probably pay the subscription to see that!
We all want to know what her secret is!!

For there to be a ‘therapy culture’ people would have to have access to therapy. Medication and a place on a waiting list is the standard.

‘Young adults are almost brainwashed into thinking they need help, support or medication.’ Yes, we had a much healthier culture when we kept it all in and drank at lunchtime, with a little light wife beating for the men and some benzos for the ladies

He was deemed a National Disgrace by the papers and TV. unless you've been through something similar yourself I think it's very difficult to comprehend the difficulties it brings, the strain you feel under, the shame. Do not underestimate that. there was effectively a mob baying for his blood

@maudavery I specifically chose the school my dd goes to for its focus on sports. Sometimes they'll get days off to travel to sports matches (usually rugby) to watch the boys (very important for a 15 yo lol). They get time off for hockey matches and such, which of course involves lots of socialising on the buses and such. I think that's so much more important than blooming A's and B's. Music can be a thing too. Writing lyrics, playing guitar etc. Anything that is social and they enjoy is good.

‘Young adults are almost brainwashed into thinking they need help, support or medication.’ Yes, we had a much healthier culture when we kept it all in and drank at lunchtime, with a little light wife beating for the men and some benzos for the ladies*

I think this is an unfair interpretation of what this poster Said. I see it myself that kids who feel Upset about something wonder if they have depression. Kids who are worried about something wonder if they have anxiety. Any negative emotion is pathologised. And genuine MH suffering is trivialised as it is all conflated together.

If we can't sort out the mental health of this adult generation, the children of the next generation will suffer too.

OP, you're being a bit Boris - just get out and cycle to work! Bloody children! Lol
It's not as simple as resolving it, it goes through generations as one leads on to the next generation.
Abuse, alcoholism, addiction etc. They all play into how we parent and how our children are then affected which starts the cycle off again.

What a timely and interesting discussion. I have just bumped into a friend and her teen son, who has recently been diagnosed as on the autistic spectrum. He spends virtually all his time gaming. Go back ,60 years or so and he may have been in the fields or in factory, his life mapped out by meal times and factory sirens. No lolling about at home, demanding a toastie with the crusts cut off.

I know this is contentious stuff and hats off to parents dealing with challenging young people but are we doing them any favours?

[quote maudavery]@JamesArthursEyelashes what exactly is uneducated about what I have said?

@Komacho I really do, but from where I am standing, MH issues are getting worse and our therapy culture is not helping. [/quote]
Therapy culture? Have you ever actually tried to access mental health services in this country?

I figured out what really annoyed me about the OP's mindset, it's the repeat references to being 'strong'' mentally as if having a mental illness is weakness.

Management is constant. I relapsed badly in June and I'm still not back out. I'm not sure what's 'great' about that, but it does not mean that I am weak, it does not mean the child I was when I started exhibiting symptoms was weak - and child me spent hours in the woods cause that's what kids did back then, we'd get kicked out in the morning and weren't welcomed back til the street lights came on and even when contemplating if the wooden beams in my classroom could hold me and a rope, I was mentally stronger than any adult who thinks mentally ill kids just need to be taught about the glories of nature. That to me suggests you're so afraid that you could be part of the problem that you'll point to anything else.

What's weak is a society that thinks it's going to solve mental health by more talking about it in the classroom. It's like the guidance to professionals to go for a walk to be less stressed. Instead of recognizing the structural problems that have for decades been shown to be linked to mental ill health, we make it individualized so we can blame the individual for not meeting expectations. People need skills and environmental changes, not a pep talk on going outside.

By therapy culture I don't really mean access to actual therapy. I mean the pathologising of everything and emphasis on everything being about wellbeing.

It's the title of a book by Frank Furedi

www.amazon.co.uk/Therapy-Culture-Cultivating-Vulnerability-Uncertain/dp/041532159X

Speaking of Boris, Theresa May got in trouble once didn't she when she was asked about her own MH and she said "I'm one of those people who just gets on with it" and I remember she got torn to shreds on here for saying that. Whereas to me it didn't seem like such an outrageous thing to say. And I'm
Not a fan of hers.

Yeah, therapy culture, as the sociologist puts it, doesn't actually doesn't have to do with actual therapy or mental illness or Beckham's statement (in which he didn't say he got on with it, he got help from his family and team).

It's about popular culture, education, and politics controlling how people feel about their emotions. You're recommendations fits into it - people are so scared that kids may have a mental illness, they'll start prescribing the outdoors and having talks about it in schools. The constant talking about it with no skills being development or environmental changes to back up the lipservices to mental health is part of the problem. It's a societal dissonance - telling people X is important, but nothing really happens to do anything about it beyond that. That's just going to make things worse.

Ok I see what you are saying @BiBabbles.
I agree with you that constantly talking about it doesn't help, and that more action rather than talk is needed.

I still think nature has a role to play. I've read a lot recently about books in which writers have made links between MH and nature- Emma Mitchell, Isabel Hardman, Dara McAnulty, for example.