Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

919 replies

DomDoesWotHeWants · 28/07/2020 14:46

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/28/unions-call-for-teachers-in-england-to-be-able-to-wear-face-masks

Given that they have to be worn almost everywhere else indoors by over 11s it would be the right thing to do. Adults working in schools have as much right to be protected as bus drivers and shop workers.

So AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Iwalkinmyclothing · 28/07/2020 17:12

Yanbu. I have bought masks for all the family to wear when in shops etc, including my 5 year old (he likes his, they're Batman ones and he puts it on and runs around making annoying but happy noises). I'm in the "if you can, you should" camp wrt masks.

I wear a mask at work. It's not massively fun. It's not the terrible burden some like to pretend it is, either.

HoldMyLobster · 28/07/2020 17:12

Why bother going back at all for over 11s? With all this fuss we would be far better off going for fully online, centralised teaching delivery for over 11s. Or blended, 50:50, so plenty of room to social distance

I'm not in the UK, and our plans for school reopening do involve the things that other workplaces are mandating to keep staff safe such as distancing, much more hand-washing, screens, etc.

They're looking pretty much impossible to achieve if all the students go in every day, even with expanded building space, improved ventilation, and extra staff, so it's looking most likely that they'll go back to a hybrid program with 50% in at any one time.

Fallulah · 28/07/2020 17:13

@lifeafter50

(overweight so more at risk) teacher here... And it hadn't occurred to you to reduce your own avoidable risk factor? How selfish to inflict an obligation on the children rather that exerting some effort yourself.
Sorry I’ll just flick the ‘lose weight instantly’ switch. Forgot about that.

Bit unnecessary. I am trying.

mumsneedwine · 28/07/2020 17:13

@NeverForgetYourDreams 😂😂😂 I assume you don't teach ? If I don't wander around the classroom how do I check the students work ? I won't be in Sept, unless everyone is in a mask though. Wearing a mask protects all of us.

CallmeAngelina · 28/07/2020 17:15

No evidence of children passing to teachers.

You're not quoting that ridiculous "study" that was printed in the Times? The one based on no scientific evidence at all?

DomDoesWotHeWants · 28/07/2020 17:16

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

Advocating for something safe in the knowledge that you will never be compelled to endure it yourself.

How utterly snide and unpleasant are you? I'd swap my wheelchair for a mask any day. Your disablist spite is uncalled for.

OP posts:
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 28/07/2020 17:16

@TheLegendOfZelda

Why bother going back at all for over 11s? With all this fuss we would be far better off going for fully online, centralised teaching delivery for over 11s. Or blended, 50:50, so plenty of room to social distance

If schoolchildren have to wear masks, then so should everyone who is indoors with others. All indoor workplaces, for starters.

It would be better to just leave schools closed and put all the efforts into online learning, thereby keeping staff and children and their families safe. Those that were shielding then will remain protected too.

Then those travelling, not social distancing, no wearing masks etc won’t impact on those families who have been keeping to all the guidelines.

Masks will help a little but they don’t stop all transmission especially after hours in the same rooms with little space and likely no ventilation.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 28/07/2020 17:18

No evidence of children passing to teachers

Yes, the virus knows not to spread in schools or infect teachers Hmm

Hungrypuffin · 28/07/2020 17:21

Limited evidence of small children passing the virus on (although this too could be deceptive - a lot of children just weren’t tested, as they were asymptomatic, so could have been spreading it - they are ‘super-spreaders’ of flu). Stronger evidence that teenagers spread the virus at the same rate as adults.

They’re not even offering teachers a free flu jab, and never have, even though they’ve known for years that children spread flu very effectively.

Letseatgrandma · 28/07/2020 17:22

No evidence of children passing to teachers

The Times mentioned one scientist who said this last week. There was no evidence for it being true.

Enoughnowstop · 28/07/2020 17:23

So....you all want schools open? For whatever reason - good of the economy, so you can work, child mental health, adult mental health.....,we want schools open and functioning on 100% of their usual timetables with all children able to be in school all day, every day. That's what we're aiming for, right?

Those of you who say no to masks, what do you think will happen in a room where a child is asympomatic with covid and sits there for 5 days, laughing, chatting, singing, shouting in the corridors, eating with huge groups, peeing in toilets used by 300 other students, getting in his friend's faces, getting close to the adults, the adults getting close to him to help him with his work....at the very minimum, other people are going to pick it up asymptomatically because we know that's how it works. And all those children who have it asymtompatically will walk it out of school into their parent's homes, their grand parent's homes, the GP surgery, dentist, Post Office, the bus ride home and leave their virus everywhere. And remember, the more people in the bubble - 300 in some high schools - the more chance you have of coming into contact with an asymptomatic case as a child.

What happens when the teacher (1) in that same bubble (primary school) gets sick? Bearing in mind, that teacher will also use the same toilet as colleagues and will be touching communal items such as guillotines, photocopies, lightswitches, tap in the bathroom, switch on the kettle...Teacher (1) is off. Potentially for weeks. No local supply available because they are tough to get at the best of times (and many, many teachers work supply because it fits with, for example, caring for elderly parents or disabled children so they aren't going to be wanting to go into schools with known cases). Teacher 1 has left her mark all around school. Teacher (2) gets sick 5 days later and is also off whilst Teacher (1) is still sick. Teacher (3) gets it asympomatically so is bombing around the place leaving a virus trail behind him. Teacher (4) is off by the end of the second week by which point Teacher (1) is critically ill in hospital. The classes teachers (1), (2), (3) and (4) teach are now closed until supply can be found (less and less likely by the day) or until the teacher has returned. We know enough to know this could be months in some cases and certainly weeks in many, many cases.

In secondary, the issue is less acute in that staff have free lessons and will be expected to cover whilst teacher (1) and (2) go off sick. However, covering (3) and (4) as well starts to be problematic because supply is in short supply (pun absolutely intended). But it doesn't end there because asymptomatic child has lessons with no less than 8 teachers over a 5 day period and wanders in and out of the loo without bothering to wash his hands. By the end of day 14, teachers (5), (6), (7) and (8) are off too and the school has closed one year bubble and has to close 2 others because the staff are dropping like proverbial flies. So that's 10 and 11 in only. Again, potentially for weeks.

Now, I am not saying that masks will solve the issue. I can see that fiddling with them etc. etc. is problematic. And the same asympomatic children will be wandering about touching all sorts. But it will help to prevent some transmissions and if only teachers (1) and (5) go off sick, the school remains open. The school remaining open is key. It's what you, as parents, want. So why not just try to do everything possible to keep transmission low so we can acheive that.

What people really don't seem to get is that this is NOT about reducing transmission between children - we get that for the vast majority it will be unproblematic - but children cannot go into a school without staff and I am quite sure that you would want to do everything possible yourself to keep safe. So just do it. Masks are about all we have if we are all in school at the same time so why stop us using them?

mumsneedwine · 28/07/2020 17:24

Yes my behaviour management is so effective the virus does not dare to enter my classroom and misbehave. It knows better😂😂

mumsneedwine · 28/07/2020 17:26

@Enoughnowstop I have 4 free lessons a fortnight next year. And I expect I'll have to use those for duty as so many breaks to cover now.

mumsneedwine · 28/07/2020 17:27

@Enoughnowstop spot on in ever my respect. We all want schools open. To do that we need staff to be healthy.

motherrunner · 28/07/2020 17:28

@Enoughnowstop

So....you all want schools open? For whatever reason - good of the economy, so you can work, child mental health, adult mental health.....,we want schools open and functioning on 100% of their usual timetables with all children able to be in school all day, every day. That's what we're aiming for, right?

Those of you who say no to masks, what do you think will happen in a room where a child is asympomatic with covid and sits there for 5 days, laughing, chatting, singing, shouting in the corridors, eating with huge groups, peeing in toilets used by 300 other students, getting in his friend's faces, getting close to the adults, the adults getting close to him to help him with his work....at the very minimum, other people are going to pick it up asymptomatically because we know that's how it works. And all those children who have it asymtompatically will walk it out of school into their parent's homes, their grand parent's homes, the GP surgery, dentist, Post Office, the bus ride home and leave their virus everywhere. And remember, the more people in the bubble - 300 in some high schools - the more chance you have of coming into contact with an asymptomatic case as a child.

What happens when the teacher (1) in that same bubble (primary school) gets sick? Bearing in mind, that teacher will also use the same toilet as colleagues and will be touching communal items such as guillotines, photocopies, lightswitches, tap in the bathroom, switch on the kettle...Teacher (1) is off. Potentially for weeks. No local supply available because they are tough to get at the best of times (and many, many teachers work supply because it fits with, for example, caring for elderly parents or disabled children so they aren't going to be wanting to go into schools with known cases). Teacher 1 has left her mark all around school. Teacher (2) gets sick 5 days later and is also off whilst Teacher (1) is still sick. Teacher (3) gets it asympomatically so is bombing around the place leaving a virus trail behind him. Teacher (4) is off by the end of the second week by which point Teacher (1) is critically ill in hospital. The classes teachers (1), (2), (3) and (4) teach are now closed until supply can be found (less and less likely by the day) or until the teacher has returned. We know enough to know this could be months in some cases and certainly weeks in many, many cases.

In secondary, the issue is less acute in that staff have free lessons and will be expected to cover whilst teacher (1) and (2) go off sick. However, covering (3) and (4) as well starts to be problematic because supply is in short supply (pun absolutely intended). But it doesn't end there because asymptomatic child has lessons with no less than 8 teachers over a 5 day period and wanders in and out of the loo without bothering to wash his hands. By the end of day 14, teachers (5), (6), (7) and (8) are off too and the school has closed one year bubble and has to close 2 others because the staff are dropping like proverbial flies. So that's 10 and 11 in only. Again, potentially for weeks.

Now, I am not saying that masks will solve the issue. I can see that fiddling with them etc. etc. is problematic. And the same asympomatic children will be wandering about touching all sorts. But it will help to prevent some transmissions and if only teachers (1) and (5) go off sick, the school remains open. The school remaining open is key. It's what you, as parents, want. So why not just try to do everything possible to keep transmission low so we can acheive that.

What people really don't seem to get is that this is NOT about reducing transmission between children - we get that for the vast majority it will be unproblematic - but children cannot go into a school without staff and I am quite sure that you would want to do everything possible yourself to keep safe. So just do it. Masks are about all we have if we are all in school at the same time so why stop us using them?

@Enoughnowstop Well said!
PablosHoney · 28/07/2020 17:28

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross, harsh 😨

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 28/07/2020 17:29

All that is probably just a little bit less invasive than the "discomfort" of being on a ventilator.

We need some kind of Godwin's Law for the laziness of using the ventilator line of argument to shut down discussion.

Letseatgrandma · 28/07/2020 17:29

@Enoughnowstop

So....you all want schools open? For whatever reason - good of the economy, so you can work, child mental health, adult mental health.....,we want schools open and functioning on 100% of their usual timetables with all children able to be in school all day, every day. That's what we're aiming for, right?

Those of you who say no to masks, what do you think will happen in a room where a child is asympomatic with covid and sits there for 5 days, laughing, chatting, singing, shouting in the corridors, eating with huge groups, peeing in toilets used by 300 other students, getting in his friend's faces, getting close to the adults, the adults getting close to him to help him with his work....at the very minimum, other people are going to pick it up asymptomatically because we know that's how it works. And all those children who have it asymtompatically will walk it out of school into their parent's homes, their grand parent's homes, the GP surgery, dentist, Post Office, the bus ride home and leave their virus everywhere. And remember, the more people in the bubble - 300 in some high schools - the more chance you have of coming into contact with an asymptomatic case as a child.

What happens when the teacher (1) in that same bubble (primary school) gets sick? Bearing in mind, that teacher will also use the same toilet as colleagues and will be touching communal items such as guillotines, photocopies, lightswitches, tap in the bathroom, switch on the kettle...Teacher (1) is off. Potentially for weeks. No local supply available because they are tough to get at the best of times (and many, many teachers work supply because it fits with, for example, caring for elderly parents or disabled children so they aren't going to be wanting to go into schools with known cases). Teacher 1 has left her mark all around school. Teacher (2) gets sick 5 days later and is also off whilst Teacher (1) is still sick. Teacher (3) gets it asympomatically so is bombing around the place leaving a virus trail behind him. Teacher (4) is off by the end of the second week by which point Teacher (1) is critically ill in hospital. The classes teachers (1), (2), (3) and (4) teach are now closed until supply can be found (less and less likely by the day) or until the teacher has returned. We know enough to know this could be months in some cases and certainly weeks in many, many cases.

In secondary, the issue is less acute in that staff have free lessons and will be expected to cover whilst teacher (1) and (2) go off sick. However, covering (3) and (4) as well starts to be problematic because supply is in short supply (pun absolutely intended). But it doesn't end there because asymptomatic child has lessons with no less than 8 teachers over a 5 day period and wanders in and out of the loo without bothering to wash his hands. By the end of day 14, teachers (5), (6), (7) and (8) are off too and the school has closed one year bubble and has to close 2 others because the staff are dropping like proverbial flies. So that's 10 and 11 in only. Again, potentially for weeks.

Now, I am not saying that masks will solve the issue. I can see that fiddling with them etc. etc. is problematic. And the same asympomatic children will be wandering about touching all sorts. But it will help to prevent some transmissions and if only teachers (1) and (5) go off sick, the school remains open. The school remaining open is key. It's what you, as parents, want. So why not just try to do everything possible to keep transmission low so we can acheive that.

What people really don't seem to get is that this is NOT about reducing transmission between children - we get that for the vast majority it will be unproblematic - but children cannot go into a school without staff and I am quite sure that you would want to do everything possible yourself to keep safe. So just do it. Masks are about all we have if we are all in school at the same time so why stop us using them?

The supply issue is an important one I have seen on other threads. If a teacher is off with suspected Covid, what supply teacher in their right mind will want to cover them and expose themselves to all the pupils who they have been teaching?!

If you do have a supply teacher in, how on earth do you know where they’ve been and how many other different pupils/staff members they’ve been in contact with over the last 14 days? It will be hundreds.

PablosHoney · 28/07/2020 17:29

Agree about the ventilator thing though, lazy and stupid argument

mumsneedwine · 28/07/2020 17:31

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross I assume you don't know anyone who has been on a ventilator with Covid. Because 'lazy' is not a word I'd use. It's horrific and has long lasting effects.

CallmeAngelina · 28/07/2020 17:33

Which is exactly what you've just attempted to do, NewCross.
You might not like the argument, but it's nonetheless true. Most cliches are, after all.

DomDoesWotHeWants · 28/07/2020 17:36

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

All that is probably just a little bit less invasive than the "discomfort" of being on a ventilator.

We need some kind of Godwin's Law for the laziness of using the ventilator line of argument to shut down discussion.

Only when ridiculous comparison to stasi is also banned.

No apology for your disablist comment?

OP posts:
colouringindoors · 28/07/2020 17:37

Personally I think it should be encouraged at secondary school. I work in classrooms where I'm often assisting students on a one to one basis, close up and am (recovering from slipped disc) concerned about catching Covid from the students.

Enoughnowstop · 28/07/2020 17:40

You can also see from this how much emotional blackmail will be landed on children

Yep. I think there will be a lot of supply teachers out there 'happy' to work because they have no choice financially. But that won't be all supply teachers. I did supply for a number of years because it fitted with my family and meant I was available for hospital appointments etc. so simply didn't work on those days. There was no way on earth at that point that I'd have taken work in schools with known virus cases. And of course, some supply will have a partner to support them and simply wont' be working.

It has fucking disaster for education written all over it but lord knows, all these parents are able to see is their own little bubble and how it affects them personally. The bigger picture has been absolutely lost.

TheHoneyBadger · 28/07/2020 17:41

They want it all and it’s a fantasy. Full time school all in at once aka no social distancing and in fact the total opposite of it. But also no masks to try and keep teachers safe.

Total own goal but a bloody shame it will take high numbers of us to get sick and some die or be left with devastated levels of health to prove it.

They don’t want to give an inch for the wider good.

Not hard to see where some kids who don’t have a shred of consideration for their classmates education or emotional well being get their attitudes from. I keep reminding myself mn isn’t truly representative of society.