AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/28/unions-call-for-teachers-in-england-to-be-able-to-wear-face-masks

Given that they have to be worn almost everywhere else indoors by over 11s it would be the right thing to do. Adults working in schools have as much right to be protected as bus drivers and shop workers.

So AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

Our Head has said that staff and students can wear face masks in September. Quite a few students did when Year 10 and 12 returned in June - not huge numbers but enough for it not to be considered odd or worth mentioning by non-mask wearers.

We will not be collecting books - all homework will be submitted online for assessment.

The NASWUT is right. Staff have to protect themselves in the same way they go to shops etc otherwise it will place more pressure on schools if we go off ill.

Really we need social distancing, smaller groups and masks, like the majority of Europe.

I don't understand why British & American children seem so unable to wear them - it's always cited as it will be too difficult but is that not partially due to mindset of the adults because it's clear little kids can and do wear them as demonstrated by the countries that do it, is it not that we just don't really want them to and project our own anxieties and issues.

The children who have gone back to daycare and camp in my US state have worn them without any hysteria.

The expectation is that students to wear them when they return to school in September. My high schoolers have been wearing them to their summer jobs so I imagine they'll manage at school too.

Just out of interest, how many of you who are supporting this bonkers idea have actually worn a mask for the duration of the time that a child would be in school?

Perhaps before you proclaim what a great idea this is, put your mask on tomorrow at 8.45 and then wear it until 4pm. Tell you what, you can take it off to eat your lunch.

Then come back on here and tell us how comfortable it was, how easy it was to concentrate on everything you were supposed to be doing, how your glasses didn't fog up, how you didn't feel sweaty and slightly claustrophobic in the humidity, how easy it was to communicate with everyone around you, not just verbally but through non-verbal expression...

I'm a teacher and if I'm told I have to wear one for teaching, or the kids have to wear them, I will be vocally opposed. It's a terrible, terrible idea.

The school staff are protected somewhat by the students wearing them.

Why do you think a teacher should have to sit in a stuffy room with 30 different teenagers 5 times a day who aren’t wearing masks?

If you really think that it’s too traumatic for your teenager (bar genuine reasons eg autism with big sensory issues) then teach them yourself

I do think teachers and school staff should be allowed to wear them if they want to, but it shouldn't be mandatory for children,

The point is that if everyone wears them, each individual is protected from everyone else.

If only teachers wear them, the children are only protected from one person in the room and not the other thirty!

@Stuckforthefourthtime

Masks only work if used even half way properly, and only for a few hours before needing to be replaced/washed. There is usually more of the virus to be found on the outside, if worn by an infected person for multiple hours - so a child who is almost guaranteed to end up fiddling with it and taking it on and off, might well end up spreading more than if they didn't wear it (exception might be if they were coughing/sneezing, but clearly any coughing or sneezing children should not be going to.school and/or get sent home immediately).

So no, don't think there's a point. Shopping centres yes, adult offices yes, but not at school.

^^This - I totally agree it would spread more germs than it would protect the wearer and those around them.

I am a secondary school teacher and echo what @Letseatgrandma has just said. In September I will have ONE 20 minute break all day. That means ONE opportunity to wash my hands from 8-4. I teach over 200 pupils a day and will come into contact with many more as will be required to do 3 duties a day. If other enclosed places require masks/visors/partitions to be ‘Covid secure’ then I would like to be afforded the same protection. Classrooms are not big enough to ensure 1m (let alone 2) for me to be away from the front rows. For me to be 1m away from row 1 I would have to stand in the corridor. The classrooms in my school can not be adequately ventilated, all windows open a fraction due to Health and Safety regs and all doors open onto corridors which so have a through draft due to fire doors. If masks offer some protection than I would like that. Some is better than nothing.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

Just out of interest, how many of you who are supporting this bonkers idea have actually worn a mask for the duration of the time that a child would be in school?

Perhaps before you proclaim what a great idea this is, put your mask on tomorrow at 8.45 and then wear it until 4pm. Tell you what, you can take it off to eat your lunch.

Then come back on here and tell us how comfortable it was, how easy it was to concentrate on everything you were supposed to be doing, how your glasses didn't fog up, how you didn't feel sweaty and slightly claustrophobic in the humidity, how easy it was to communicate with everyone around you, not just verbally but through non-verbal expression...

I'm a teacher and if I'm told I have to wear one for teaching, or the kids have to wear them, I will be vocally opposed. It's a terrible, terrible idea.

Nurses and doctors wear them for much longer than that. As do dentists, hairdressers, shop workers (from choice). Waiting staff, bar staff, need I go on?

If you don't want to wear one that's your choice but the default position, for the safety of adults and children, should be all wearing masks.

Perhaps before you proclaim what a great idea this is, put your mask on tomorrow at 8.45 and then wear it until 4pm. Tell you what, you can take it off to eat your lunch.

This is exactly what my 17 year old does every day at work in a hot, humid restaurant kitchen.

Nope and I work at a secondary school.

I agree that every adult asking for this needs to trial wearing one for 6/7 hours a day 5 days a week and not take them off for regular drinking breaks or talking, not touch then at all etc. And then decide how easy it is.

It's not.

I have to do it for work and people popping into a supermarket have no idea how awful it is. My team have red, spotty, dry skin, super dry throats and constant headaches. We do it because we get paid. Children will largely fiddle and have them handing off necks and ears, taking them off etc increasing transmission so much more. Being a professional voice user (teachers) with a mask is really challenging for long term voice damage.

Not saying these things are more important but it's not as simple as 'everyone wear a mask in school'. My autistic son would be uneducated again - he's already missed 2.5 yrs due to his autism - what's more discrimination??

YABU. Not just due to the fact that it would be hugely uncomfortable and distracting but totally ineffective! I would not expect teenagers to diligently wear a mask all day without fiddling around with it and pulling it down under the nose. Not to mention changing it at regular intervals.

Absolutely unreasonable.

Secondary teachers will have difficulty learning who their pupils are and building up a rapport. It will already be harder from not having seen pupils since March.

Many teachers and pupils will struggle to communicate effectively through muffled speech and loss of significant chunks of non-verbal communication. I used to teach in a school with enhanced provision for hearing impairments, and occasionally had no cover if the BSL interpreter was unavaliable. Lip reading and expression go a very long way in effective communication and not just for people with recognised hearing and processing difficulties.

Pupils with additional needs/ special needs are not snowflakes. Be it misted up glasses, asthma, ASD, ASHD, hearing impairments as some common conditions that make mask wearing impractical for a sifnificant core in every class.

For a core of pupils, it will be a fantastic excuse for low level disruption to be difficult to pin down and deal with. Some classes/ schools have a very difficult core that do not care about disrupting learning or the consequences to them. So much scope to waste even more precious learning time working out who's whispering/ humming or flinging their "disease ridden" mask around the room for the ewww factor. Then there's just the general fidgeting and faffing.

Plus the fact that the type of masks are ineffective for long term use in a closed environment and once the mask is touched any virus transfer is now onto hands and the physical environment. For very little evidenced gain, there is a significant detriment to the teaching and learning experience and will be felt most strongly by those who have been most left behind for nearly 6 months.

I am a secondary school teacher and echo what Letseatgrandma has just said. In September I will have ONE 20 minute break all day. That means ONE opportunity to wash my hands from 8-4. I teach over 200 pupils a day and will come into contact with many more as will be required to do 3 duties a day. If other enclosed places require masks/visors/partitions to be ‘Covid secure’ then I would like to be afforded the same protection. Classrooms are not big enough to ensure 1m (let alone 2) for me to be away from the front rows. For me to be 1m away from row 1 I would have to stand in the corridor. The classrooms in my school can not be adequately ventilated, all windows open a fraction due to Health and Safety regs and all doors open onto corridors which so have a through draft due to fire doors. If masks offer some protection than I would like that. Some is better than nothing.

Gosh, this sounds awful :-(

Do the schools not have plans for keeping everyone at least 3' apart? Better ventilation? More breaks for hand-washing?

These are all vital parts of our return-to-school plan, but I'm not in the UK.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Nurses and doctors wear them for much longer than that. As do dentists, hairdressers, shop workers (from choice). Waiting staff, bar staff, need I go on?

If you don't want to wear one that's your choice but the default position, for the safety of adults and children, should be all wearing masks.

Yes we do. And we hate it. I would never, EVER expect a child to do what we do.

Well there's the conundrum. Schools open with as much protection as possible or we will face potential regular closures as there will be insufficient staff.

Bit of a hobson's choice situation for secondary come September

There is no way of want my secondary schools age children on masks all day at school
If teachers want to wear them fair enough
Children. No

@HoldMyLobster

I am a secondary school teacher and echo what Letseatgrandma has just said. In September I will have ONE 20 minute break all day. That means ONE opportunity to wash my hands from 8-4. I teach over 200 pupils a day and will come into contact with many more as will be required to do 3 duties a day. If other enclosed places require masks/visors/partitions to be ‘Covid secure’ then I would like to be afforded the same protection. Classrooms are not big enough to ensure 1m (let alone 2) for me to be away from the front rows. For me to be 1m away from row 1 I would have to stand in the corridor. The classrooms in my school can not be adequately ventilated, all windows open a fraction due to Health and Safety regs and all doors open onto corridors which so have a through draft due to fire doors. If masks offer some protection than I would like that. Some is better than nothing.

Gosh, this sounds awful :-(

Do the schools not have plans for keeping everyone at least 3' apart? Better ventilation? More breaks for hand-washing?

These are all vital parts of our return-to-school plan, but I'm not in the UK.

No, because our return to school plans are completely unsafe and make almost no attempt to limit the spread of the virus, unlike other countries.

I know it is hard to understand but it is true.

@HoldMyLobster The guidance uses the phrase ‘if possible’ as the government are very well aware that there are dated school buildings (my school is Victorian) that house more students than they were originally intended for (originally 4 form entry, now 6). Distancing is impossible due to pure logistics. I’ve said in other threads, we have the same amount of sinks/toilets/cleaners/cleaning materials that we did in March. We are trying to reduce contact by ‘zoning’ year groups into different areas of the school but that’s the only measure we can really take.

I imagine many schools will be closed within weeks come September.

Not enough staff to run them because they are off ill with coughs and colds that they would normally work through. But would feel obliged to isolate.

It really isn't a big deal to ask over 11s to wear masks. Other countries manage it very well, our children are no different from them. Daft to think otherwise. Children are not delicate little flowers.

If they mess around, as some think they will, then suspension and home should concentrate their parents' minds to make sure they behave in future.

The incompetent and unprepared government is closing its eyes and has its fingers in its ears while it sings "Lalalalalalalal!" They will try to blame the teachers when it goes belly up.

Don't let them throw teachers under a bus.

Why are some secondary schools not letting the students out at lunch, I thought it was safer outside, would it be a distancing issue?

Do the schools not have plans for keeping everyone at least 3' apart? Better ventilation? More breaks for hand-washing?

Please don’t think this is because the schools‘ plans aren’t good enough. Classrooms are small and there are too many children in them. There are 2700 in our lovely secondary.

Most windows don’t open wide enough-either due to health and safety restrictions or because they are simply broken.

We aren’t allowed to timetable the days with more breaks as there is to be no loss of lesson time.

Have you read the guidelines-they are crap? They basically tell schools to make things safe, but give no leeway, staffing or funding for them to be able to.

We aren’t supposed to be taking children’s temperatures and are not allowed to ask to see a negative test before allowing symptomatic children back either.

This is hilarious. I think people are kidding themselves by comparing a 12 year old secondary school pupil to an adult who needs to make a living.

Nurses and doctors wear them for much longer than that. As do dentists, hairdressers, shop workers (from choice). Waiting staff, bar staff, need I go on?

If you don't want to wear one that's your choice but the default position, for the safety of adults and children, should be all wearing masks.

So, since you're such an advocate of this, have you tried it yourself for an eight hour period or not?