AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/28/unions-call-for-teachers-in-england-to-be-able-to-wear-face-masks

Given that they have to be worn almost everywhere else indoors by over 11s it would be the right thing to do. Adults working in schools have as much right to be protected as bus drivers and shop workers.

So AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

Can I just ask all the parents who are opposed to mask wearing how their workplaces ‘look’?

Imagine an 8m x 8m room, filled with 16 desks plus one for the teacher. Now fill it with 33 bodies. Not the bodies of children but adolescents. Imagine the stuffiness as our windows do not open more than a crack. That is what I will face 5 times a day in September. It is what I have faced for the r last 20 years but it’s never worries me before as I’ve never had to face a virus that can potentially kill.

I’m pro-masks as I said earlier but only as I can not maintain a 1m distance from my pupils. I would much prefer distancing, a screen, smaller classes etc.

More emotional blackmail. Only good parents make children wear masks. How sanctimonious and narrow minded.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion when you actually ask teachers...most say they don't think it's a good idea at all.

This isn't a fact. You're on an anonymous forum. Loads of comments here patiently explaining the merits, because of a specific knowledge of what it's like to do the job, are from users that can easily be recognised as teachers if you engage in discussion on educational topics, rather than just arguing against teachers' rights to work safely.

I'll make mine wear a mask if it comes to it.
But I won't do it quietly.

My DS was back at school for 6 weeks before the end of term. Not one of them caught Coronavirus so YABU. I don't agree with them wearing masks at school.

Jesus. I despair.

Why bother going back at all for over 11s? With all this fuss we would be far better off going for fully online, centralised teaching delivery for over 11s. Or blended, 50:50, so plenty of room to social distance

If schoolchildren have to wear masks, then so should everyone who is indoors with others. All indoor workplaces, for starters.

Well don't wear masks then. And see how fast schools close. Because our bubbles are 300 students each. And I will be moving between all of them every day. And my DD is working in a hospital while at home. And I can never be 1m apart from kids as rooms too small. I think we'll manage 2 weeks before first cases.
Why not try and prevent this if we can ? No one seemed to like schools being 'closed' (they never were).
Schools are not a normal workplace. They are germ factories at the best of times. Covid does not stop at school gates.

@hayfeverhellish

More emotional blackmail. Only good parents make children wear masks. How sanctimonious and narrow minded.

Oh, the melodrama!

If you want to frame it in those terms then go right ahead. But don’t put words in my mouth.

I would ask if you would prefer mask wearing or part time school in smaller bubbles. Are you prepared to give up full time with no social distancing so kids don’t have to wear masks. Because you cannot have it all your own way. That’s not how life works.

teachers, the actual people that everyone seems so focused on protecting,

You what? Have you not read ANY of the recent threads on here? The general public don't give a SHIT about protecting teachers, as long as they turn up to their child's classroom each morning.

most say they don't think it's a good idea at all. How many of the half million or so teachers in this country did you poll for that assertion?

So, firstly, I

And there have been 184 cases in educational setting during last month. While schools were pretty empty and managing to adhere to SD with older students. Get everyone back in and it's going to be dangerous.

@TheLegendofZelda
If schoolchildren have to wear masks, then so should everyone who is indoors with others. All indoor workplaces, for starters.

In order to be covid-secure, adult workplaces are employing a range of measures including social distancing, rearranged layouts, screens, etc.

Schools are not. In fact, they have been actively told to abandon any distancing between the children and to only have adults distance "if it's possible" within the specifics of the role, which it's not.

My Ds had a short getting in touch meeting at school- the children were told they could wear them if they wished . I am assuming they will allow the same September

I would prefer part time in bubbles actually but my point was that slapping a mask on all children is not the saviour to all problems in school. Everyone is treating it as a black and white solution and it just isn't that. Who would provide the masks, where would they be disposed of as they would need 2-3 per day. Hand washing after every on/off. No touching enforced. How to people exempt not become stigmatised further. It needs so much more thought.

I wonder if people's opinions might change if it turned out that staff were more prepared to get up close to help those children wearing masks?

And basically, I just think the adults should try it first. 7 hours in a mask is not east.

I am not a snowflake (much too old) and have worn a face covering in supermarkets throughout the whole of lockdown, not just because I've been told to. But that's for 10 minutes popping in and out and the longest period was wearing one in a hairdresser for about 40 minutes.

School is generally from about 9 to 3. It is not realistic to expect kids (or staff) to wear them for 6 hours. I guess you could require them in the corridors etc but not during lessons.

Secondary teacher here. Fit, healthy, no pre-existing conditions. I’m scared about September. I don’t consider myself vulnerable, but my parents and in-laws are. Seriously thinking I shouldn’t see them once term starts. And there is a remote chance I could get seriously ill myself and leave my DCs motherless, of course. It’s not “like flu” in terms of the risk to individuals. The current suggested arrangements for secondaries are inadequate and totally unworkable in practice. I have every faith in my headteacher and I think my school will be as safe as it can be; that is, not very safe at all. “Bubbles” will be 300 students. That’s meaningless. It’s not possible to SD. Teenagers probably transmit the virus at the same rate as adults do. And they all have to be in full-time, with no PPE for anyone. Tell me how secondary teachers are not at increased risk of catching the virus? Yes, masks are uncomfortable but you know what, compared to the risk of people dying, what is worse? How many students or teachers will have to die before masks start to look like an option we should at least explore?

@hayfeverhellish I have done it. 6 hours a day for 4 weeks. It was fine. Hot but bearable. As my DD was spending days on COVID ward in full PPE on 13 hour shifts at the same time I felt me wearing a cotton mask was a small price to pay not to add to her workload. And to prevent me giving it to students.
It is not going to stop all cases. But it's going to help. Along with hand washing (1800 kids and not many sinks). I'd quite like SD too but that's been denied teachers.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

It's surprising there are so many people pushing for this, yet when you actually ask teachers, the actual people that everyone seems so focused on protecting, most say they don't think it's a good idea at all.

Do you have a reference for this?

Because my observation is the exact opposite. From everything I've read most do want children to wear masks and to be able to wear them themselves. Happy to be proven wrong if you have the stats.

@ hayfeverhellish

I totally agree that PT bubbles with properly funded home learning would be better.

But unfortunately that is not what has been mandated. And there needs to be some sort of mitigation of risk. And that’s risk to health and risk to learning.

My second greatest fear is that learning is going to be severely interrupted again by bubble closures, staff sickness and local lockdowns and nothing has been done to address this.

I think a lot parents were relieved by the announcement of full time opening for all year. It is only now that people are thinking about how that will work in practise that they are realising it won’t.

If the government are going to stick to this plan then mask wearing is virtually the only way to ensure continuity of education in school. And even that won’t be perfect.

@Hungrypuffin I recon a few hundred of us will have to die before anyone decides masks might be a good idea. And cramming kids back into schools a very bad one.

Not they shouldn't have to wear them for 6 hours a day. That's a long time to be wearing them. No evidence of children passing to teachers. Why don't the teachers where PPE and have screens around their desks. No need to wander round the classroom.

My 5 and 7 yr olds wear them with no issues in the shops. Sometimes for hours!! So yes. I’d let them wear one and say they should.

@Hungrypuffin

Secondary teacher here. Fit, healthy, no pre-existing conditions. I’m scared about September. I don’t consider myself vulnerable, but my parents and in-laws are. Seriously thinking I shouldn’t see them once term starts. And there is a remote chance I could get seriously ill myself and leave my DCs motherless, of course. It’s not “like flu” in terms of the risk to individuals. The current suggested arrangements for secondaries are inadequate and totally unworkable in practice. I have every faith in my headteacher and I think my school will be as safe as it can be; that is, not very safe at all. “Bubbles” will be 300 students. That’s meaningless. It’s not possible to SD. Teenagers probably transmit the virus at the same rate as adults do. And they all have to be in full-time, with no PPE for anyone. Tell me how secondary teachers are not at increased risk of catching the virus? Yes, masks are uncomfortable but you know what, compared to the risk of people dying, what is worse? How many students or teachers will have to die before masks start to look like an option we should at least explore?

for you and all teachers worried about September.

I know it makes no difference but some parents, me included, are very concerned about all our teachers.

I agree with all you say, I think it is the truth, bubbles are utter nonsense.