AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/28/unions-call-for-teachers-in-england-to-be-able-to-wear-face-masks

Given that they have to be worn almost everywhere else indoors by over 11s it would be the right thing to do. Adults working in schools have as much right to be protected as bus drivers and shop workers.

So AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

They wont work in schools, they will get touched and removed by children (even if it's just when they are eating or drinking). Plus it would exclude a huge number of deaf/HoH/autistic/other SEN children.

As someone who works in a school, I dont think it's a good idea

@TheHoneyBadger I think you're deliberately misinterpreting a lot of what's been said here.

Secondary school kids, absolutely.

Yes, some will be exempt for very good reasons, some will fiddle, some will mess about and some will just be pathetic about it (possibly because they see their parents being pathetic about it). It will still be a majority of kids with their mouths and noses covered, which means my colleagues and I have less chance of catching Covid-19.

I’m all for it.

Not hard to see where some kids who don’t have a shred of consideration for their classmates education or emotional well being get their attitudes from

Well that goes both ways doesn't it?
Where is the consideration for the other side?
The barriers masks will put in the way for many children to access education, what about their emotional wellbeing?

Those who have hearing issues, sensory issues, PTSD. Where is the consideration for them?

Those who can't afford or parents won't buy/wash masks. Where is the consideration for them?

It works both ways

@Greysparkles no one wants this. It's shit. All of it. But surely you agree that most older students can wear a mask with no problems. And this will mean less droplets in the air. Which leads to less cases. And schools can stay open.

We closed to some year groups before lockdown as so many staff were ill or shielding. We will be back there very quickly if current plans go ahead.
I don't want to wear a mask, I hate the things. But I also don't want to catch it or pass it to a student. If I can do anything to prevent that then I will.

If you read my posts on here you’ll see I’m an advocate of exemptions and even gave the example of sensory issues. You’d also see why I think students wearing masks allows us to not impact on the hearing impaired.

As to who pays for mitigations you’ll see on numerous threads teachers constantly saying schools should be getting funding to spend on safety measures and suspecting the reason they say no masks is because they (government) don’t want to have to source or pay for them.

In an ideal world schools would have space and staff numbers to be able to sd and therefore not need masks but the government has forbidden us to do anything that requires more space or staff or anything other than all back in at once full time.

Teachers aren’t the enemies of sn kids or kids with mh issues. That would be the government again and a decade of slashing the budgets for provision and making it harder to qualify for a ihcp and bringing camhs and ss to their knees so much that local authorities are failing ofsted inspections for not being able to keep young people safe.

You’re right to have your weapons drawn but point them in the right direction please. We’re the ones who’ve been trying to hold things together.

The resistance to this is utterly bonkers. Here are your two choices:

• Schools return following every possible method to reduce the transmission of the virus, including the use of masks, social distancing, extra time for hand washing etc. RESULT: At least 50-75% of pupils will be in school at any given time with well-planned online teaching ready for the days they are not in school.

OR

• Schools follow the same magical thinking that some Gov ministers and parents are following. Schools are magical places where adult bodies can sit crammed in together without masks but MAGICALLY the virus knows not to infect anybody. RESULT: Schools are open full time for several weeks before the outbreaks / closures / sickness / body count become awkward enough that even Boris can't pretend it will all be over by Christmas. Second wave, schools close, health service at breaking point, working parents fucked because all childcare disappears again overnight.

All because no one seems able to think like a grown up and weigh up the costs and benefits of wearing masks beyond frothing that it is quite impossible for their little one to wear a mask because X / Y / Z. As Jonathan Pie said, 'Wear the fucking mask!' Pupils and adults in SE Asian countries have been managing perfectly well. No one has to LOVE wearing a mask but we just need to suck it up.

Those who have hearing issues, sensory issues, PTSD. Where is the consideration for them?

You'd have exemptions under any mask wearing policy.

Those who can't afford or parents won't buy/wash masks. Where is the consideration for them?

Schools can buy masks to provide to children whose families cannot or will not do so. Before the issue of already stretched budgets is raised- I know. There is already inadequate funding, but in the midst of all this, PPE has to be a priority and something else will inevitably be dropped, which is not a great situation to be in, but you weigh up priorities.

No one thinks asking secondary school children to wear masks and having to draw up and manage associated policies and to ensure masks are available for children with impoverished or uncaring parents is a perfect situation, but as widespread mask wearing seems to have some effect on reducing the spread of the virus I would rather look for ways we can make it work than reasons why it won't.

You’re right to have your weapons drawn but point them in the right direction please. We’re the ones who’ve been trying to hold things together.

@TheHoneyBadger 👏

@Pasghetti I just don't understand how people don't understand this. They seem to think teachers are being mean to want masks. I want school open and I can see that masks will help that happen. I don't want to home school again - although I'm spending my summer making lessons for that exact thing. As we all know it's going to happen if this goes ahead.

Usually we’re the ones told we need a can do attitude yet suggest wearing masks and it’s apparently impossible

@TheHoneyBadger I was just typing the same thing 😂

I work with four and five year olds and while I see both points.

Your not going to get that age to wear a mask for that long.

@ClaryFray totally agree. But I work with 11-18 year olds, most of whom easily can. So should.

@ClaryFray And I imagine you are in a relatively small bubble. I am in 5 bubbles of 300. Every day.

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheHoneyBadger I was just typing the same thing 😂[/quote]
The can do attitude? It’s remarkable eh?

I don't think its unrealistic to expect secondary school to wear masks. I think the latter years in primary would manage too.

Yes they are uncomfortable but you get used to them. We wear them for 13 hours per day (minus 1 hour break that we never ever get 🙄), I work on labour ward but our trust stipulates masks to be worn throughout the hospital even in corridors.

My 15 year old wears one for 6 hours at her sat job. Not heard her complain once tbf.

@mumsneedwine

From September bubbles are a thing of the past. We don't have the facilities to have smaller bubbles, so kids in groups of 30 with no social distancing and teachers being sneezed on and catching everything known to man. Business as usual lol

@Pasghetti

The resistance to this is utterly bonkers. Here are your two choices:

• Schools return following every possible method to reduce the transmission of the virus, including the use of masks, social distancing, extra time for hand washing etc. RESULT: At least 50-75% of pupils will be in school at any given time with well-planned online teaching ready for the days they are not in school.

OR

• Schools follow the same magical thinking that some Gov ministers and parents are following. Schools are magical places where adult bodies can sit crammed in together without masks but MAGICALLY the virus knows not to infect anybody. RESULT: Schools are open full time for several weeks before the outbreaks / closures / sickness / body count become awkward enough that even Boris can't pretend it will all be over by Christmas. Second wave, schools close, health service at breaking point, working parents fucked because all childcare disappears again overnight.

All because no one seems able to think like a grown up and weigh up the costs and benefits of wearing masks beyond frothing that it is quite impossible for their little one to wear a mask because X / Y / Z. As Jonathan Pie said, 'Wear the fucking mask!' Pupils and adults in SE Asian countries have been managing perfectly well. No one has to LOVE wearing a mask but we just need to suck it up.

A brilliant post.

It would be interesting and helpful to know how many school age children actually have the virus. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been any large scale study focusing on this. I suspect the incidence of infection is low, as it is in the general population. If so it should be fairly easily contained in the event of a school outbreak. It's not a given that the virus will spread like wildfire in schools. Most people do not have Covid.

@ClaryFray 😟. I am dreading it. Even with small groups of 10 and 12 in we couldn't manage to keep 1m away. And I couldn't help them. We are trialling using phones so they can transmit their work to my computer- so like a visualiser. Hoping it works as will mean I can do my job better. I've never been a chalk and talk teacher - I usually blow something up every lesson. V limited practicals as I will be teaching science in normal classrooms for half my time. So v sad.

No I would not support secondary kids wearing masks.

I would support measures to keep staff safer such as the installation of plastic screens and secondary kids being asked to remain 2m from adults.

I'm not angry at teachers, never said I was.
But I don't believe forcing masks is the right way to go here.

My DS11 is exempt due to his ASD. Wearing a mask causes him real distress, but he's having to weigh up potentially putting himself through that everyday or having his peers know he's "different"

We've tried different masks, but having lasted much past a minutes, so now when he has his hair cut, goes to an opticians appointment, or pops to the corner shop he faces having to justify himself and divulge what should be private medical Information to those that challenge him. It doesn't help he is very tall and easily mistaken for a 13/14 year old.
The looks and states from judgy mask fuckers are not helpful at all.
His mental health is taking a battering atm, and for those in the know serious mental health and suicide rates of autistic teenagers, especially boys, is very
Very high.

I get what masks are for. I wear one at work everyday, as I've said. But I will not agree that children should be forced to wear them.

@TimeForLunch it's not about children having it, but carrying it. And therefore spreading it. As a scientist I can't see how the virus knows a nose belongs to a child and therefore not to go up it. And what goes up, has to come down.
All studies have been done on children - meaning under 10s. Not secondary students. No one knows how badly they will be affected as we have protected them by shutting schools.
Today 2,000 people tested positive, meaning probably about 5,000'people caught it today (statistical formula used by PHE). So 35,000 new cases a week. As it can take 2 weeks to incubate that's 70,000 cases. Fine if you don't come into contact with one, but how will you know ?

I’m a Secondary school teacher and do not want to wear one at all. I wear them at the moment when I’m out and no way would I want to do my job in one at all.