AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/28/unions-call-for-teachers-in-england-to-be-able-to-wear-face-masks

Given that they have to be worn almost everywhere else indoors by over 11s it would be the right thing to do. Adults working in schools have as much right to be protected as bus drivers and shop workers.

So AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

Absolutely. I would go so far as all DC from Reception up. Plenty of time for snowflake parents hysterical that their DC may be scared of them, to get their DC used to them before they go back to school. They may be the difference in schools closing (and teachers dying) or remaining open and everyone being able to get back to work.

No snowflakes here but I don't agree that 4 year olds should have to wear a mask all day for 5 days a week. Secondary school is different.

You're not unreasonable to agree, personally I disagree.

No snowflake here. But are you fucking serious for 4 and 5 year olds?

Where is your evidence they spread it?

They touch their faces MORE with masks.

Our school has been FULLY open to ALL year groups since 1st June.

@CoronaIsShit

Absolutely. I would go so far as all DC from Reception up. Plenty of time for snowflake parents hysterical that their DC may be scared of them, to get their DC used to them before they go back to school. They may be the difference in schools closing (and teachers dying) or remaining open and everyone being able to get back to work.

My 4 year old (starting reception) has no problem wearing a mask for a short period of time - but she sticks her tongue out and licks it so it gets really wet - I'm sure this makes it worse than not wearing one at all. Secondary and above I agree.

@runbummyrun

No snowflake here. But are you fucking serious for 4 and 5 year olds?

Where is your evidence they spread it?

They touch their faces MORE with masks.

Our school has been FULLY open to ALL year groups since 1st June.

The OP says over 11s. That's my question.

Unfortunately it would result in a lot of children just not going to school. My autistic 12 year old can tolerate a mask for 5 minutes to pop into a shop for a pint of milk, but she'd never manage a full day at school.

I agree that the use of masks in secondary schools should be strongly encouraged. But not infant schools. Juniors I'm on the fence about.

In secondary schools I think masks are a good idea. I'm less keen on the idea of my primary school DS wearing one but if it means less transmission and less disruption to education I'd be for it.

Absolutely reasonable. Older children can and do transmit the virus similarly to adults (the only saving grace with this virus is that children don't often appear to be badly affected individually, but they're still bodies that pass this around the community to those who are likely to become more badly affected) and will be in enclosed spaces for long periods of time in large groups.

DfE says other measures are in place, but they aren't enough and no one thing will eliminate this, so it stands to reason to try everything.

Segregation across year groups, or 'bubbles', helps with knowing contacts but don't offer protection from catching the virus in the first place and thereby passing to families and the wider community before tests take place.

Enhanced cleaning of the environment and handwashing can only help so much; it's sensible to do as many things as possible, to mitigate the risk.

Other workers (not expecting to deal face to face with positive cases) have been given the benefit of all those using their services having to attempt prevention of transmission. Just because education is essential, teachers shouldn't have to teach in risky conditions. The job of a union is to protect people at work, and the government guidelines currently allow only some adults in this county to work in 'covid-secure' workplaces, and do not help to protect others.

I agree in principal but can you imagine what it would be like in reality?! How many would wear them properly? How many would be fiddling with them or claiming they've lost them. The teachers would end up spending hours of a day policing the bloody things.

My kids would probably be fine with that, but I'd prefer face shields for school kids and teachers, at least as an option. It would be more accessible for certain students and communication would be easier.

Masks only work if used even half way properly, and only for a few hours before needing to be replaced/washed. There is usually more of the virus to be found on the outside, if worn by an infected person for multiple hours - so a child who is almost guaranteed to end up fiddling with it and taking it on and off, might well end up spreading more than if they didn't wear it (exception might be if they were coughing/sneezing, but clearly any coughing or sneezing children should not be going to.school and/or get sent home immediately).

So no, don't think there's a point. Shopping centres yes, adult offices yes, but not at school.

Yes I think they should be worn if at all possible. I personally would struggle with my glasses as they keep steaming up. Not such a huge problem in a shop but when you are reading and writing, bit of an issue.

I have two autistic kids and I am asthmatic so am aware it's not quite that simple. But on the whole I think anyone who possibly can, should wear a mask.

Totally reasonable. I think secondary children should definitely wear them on their return in September. There is no possibility of social distancing in secondary schools and plenty of other countries will be managing to do it.

I strongly suspect if we don’t implement measures like this, secondary schools will be forced to close due to outbreaks anyway.

'How many would be fiddling with them or claiming they've lost them. The teachers would end up spending hours of a day policing the bloody things.'

Absolutely agree with this - optional mask wearing would be better than no masks at all.

Even quite small kids manage in other countries (China, Israel, France, Germany, Japan, Vietnam, S.Korea, some African countries) without hysteria or issues
I don't understand why British & American children seem so unable to wear them - it's always cited as it will be too difficult but is that not partially due to mindset of the adults because it's clear little kids can and do wear them as demonstrated by the countries that do it, is it not that we just don't really want them to and project our own anxieties and issues.

The teachers would end up spending hours of a day policing the bloody things.

Teachers will be policing distancing, one way movement around the site, hand sanitising, work rate and content from 2m away, children staying in their seats when staff move during lesson changeover, not sharing equipment, using the right entrance and exit to avoid mixing, using technology appropriately and in the ways directed rather than socially, all in addition to normal 'policing' of teaching and learning, behaviour management of teenagers, and generally proper wearing of the uniform!

It will be a nightmare, but face coverings won't be the only or biggest problem. Class sizes are big and individual teachers are responsible for hundreds of students across their timetable, and they all have to be back full time, with no blended learning or rotas according to the government.

Bad idea for so many reasons. Many find them uncomfortable and distracting. Teachers would spend all day policing their use. More germs would be spread through the touching and readjusting of manky damp masks than not. Bringing in this rule would just act as another barrier to the education of children.

Def yanbu. Obviously there could be exemptions for genuine reasons and exempt children could be seated as distanced as was possible in a classroom.

If all/vast majority of them are wearing masks then teachers can take theirs off when teaching from the front to help communication and wear them when moving around the school or having to be in closer proximity to students.

Seems utterly bizarre and indicative of total contempt for school staff to want them to have less protection than shop workers.

I took both DC for haircuts today and the younger one (9) touched his mask three times inside the first five minutes. He's generally very sensible and aware of what he's doing, so I doubt very much 4 and 5 year olds would be able to maintain correct mask use for a prolonged period.

If we don’t have any sort of social distancing, mask wearing or even regular hand washing going on for teachers who will be doing loads of extra duties meaning they don’t get to go anywhere near toilets most of the day in order to wash their hands, the consequences will probably be that they will catch Covid and get ill. Some secondary school teachers will be teaching 1200 different children.

How is that possibly a covid-secure workplace for them?

Students will be doing this on buses, trains, at university. They will in the most part manage at school.

I find them claustrophobic after 30 mins in the supermarket, I wouldn't expect Y7 DC to wear one all day, every day, no. How will that work at lunchtime and in sports/music lessons? . if they take them off to eat lunch when they are all sat together it would be completely pointless wouldn't it?

No, I don't think any children should have to wear them at school. I do think teachers and school staff should be allowed to wear them if they want to, but it shouldn't be mandatory for children, especially under high school age. Ridiculous to expect children to wear masks for that amount of time. I feel very sorry for the schools that are doing this already.

Also, I assume they would have to remove them for physical activities and lunch times etc, so what's the point in them wasting them the rest of the day?