AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/28/unions-call-for-teachers-in-england-to-be-able-to-wear-face-masks

Given that they have to be worn almost everywhere else indoors by over 11s it would be the right thing to do. Adults working in schools have as much right to be protected as bus drivers and shop workers.

So AIBU in agreeing with the NASUWT that masks should be worn in schools by over 11s?

@QueenBlueberries

This is hilarious. I think people are kidding themselves by comparing a 12 year old secondary school pupil to an adult who needs to make a living.

But nobody is. What an odd thing to say.

Yes but for all children not just secondary, other countries manage it so no reason we can’t. No SD, no PPE yet staff expected to just get on with it so parents can have their children back in school. Other work places have to be Covid secure so schools need to be.

I’d prefer a good online learning system and only children of two key workers in though to protect staff and family members of others and to keep numbers small.

Have you read the guidelines-they are crap? They basically tell schools to make things safe, but give no leeway, staffing or funding for them to be able to.

I had read some, but had naively assumed that the government would give schools the help they needed to reopen safely :-(

@TheHoneyBadger

The school staff are protected somewhat by the students wearing them.

Why do you think a teacher should have to sit in a stuffy room with 30 different teenagers 5 times a day who aren’t wearing masks?

If you really think that it’s too traumatic for your teenager (bar genuine reasons eg autism with big sensory issues) then teach them yourself

Teachers have taught through years of flu epidemics, norovirus and everything else that goes sweeping through schools since forver. (Or at least the 1800s). It's an occupational hazard of teaching and hardly a great secret

I remember in morning briefing, one of my head teachers advising regularly opening windows despite the weather to ventilate the classrooms to try to keep colds and flu transmission down. I used to ventilate my classrooms as best as I could to keep a good air qualitt anyway.

This is not significantly more hazardous than a worse than average flu season (which is potentially fatal to the medically vulnerable, elderly and can cause post-viral fatigue).

Enough quality teaching and learning has already been sacrificed.
(And no I'm not going back to the classroom in a hurry because I have a child with SNs who needs more of my time than I could spare without compromising my teaching standards).

It maybe hilarious but many of our secondary classes have a staff pupil average ratio of 1:28. Staff timetables are fully loaded with a small number of PPA sessions across the week. We have to do everything we can to ensure staff levels do not fall which would result in a school closure.

As a teacher I think it’s a bad idea. Nightmare for glasses wearers and they will fiddle with them / not have clean ones etc etc

So, since you're such an advocate of this, have you tried it yourself for an eight hour period or not?

I have a health condition which would mean I'm exempt from wearing one at all, if I so chose, but I do wear one. As a wheelchair user I haven't been out much at all since March but always wear a mask for hospital appointments and if I'm indoors anywhere.

It's to keep others safe. Why wouldn't I want to do that?

My school was closed due to a norovirus outbreak a few years ago. That was horrible - I was the eight member of staff to call in before closure announcement went out.

I can’t believe the people advocating that children should be forced to wear face coverings for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. It’s cruel. And it’s not that different from advocating the return of the cane as a punishment. If they want to wear one that’s fair enough. But to force them to do that is not morally right. The fact is that this virus is not going anywhere for a long time. Even if we get a vaccine it will only be the more vulnerable groups that get it first. The rest of the population will still need to get on with things. A worldwide vaccination will take years.

Teachers should be supported in wearing whatever PPE they feel is necessary. A face shield. Gloves. Maybe even a plastic screen at the front of the class room. If they are clinically vulnerable then perhaps they need to consider alternative employment, a sabbatical or alternative duties within the school for now. But we should not be sacrificing children’s emotional and mental health, as well as their educational attainment, when they are not at physical risk from the virus. Face coverings don’t actually provide much protection anyway. At best they may slightly reduce the risk, but at worst they may even increase it if warn incorrectly - ie children touching their faces regularly to adjust them without washing their hands (which is highly likely to happen in a classroom situation).

My school was closed due to a norovirus outbreak a few years ago. That was horrible - I was the eight member of staff to call in before closure announcement went out.

Yes, my daughter's school closed due to flu a couple of years ago. They did online schooling for a week.

@DomDoesWotHeWants with respect then, you have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea what you are expecting of children. I think if you wore one for 7 hours, you wouldn't be posting this.

@HoldMyLobster

Have you read the guidelines-they are crap? They basically tell schools to make things safe, but give no leeway, staffing or funding for them to be able to.

I had read some, but had naively assumed that the government would give schools the help they needed to reopen safely :-(

Yes, that was naive.

The plans are a disgrace and I am very that so little effort is being made.

I have set aside my fine money already

And it’s not that different from advocating the return of the cane as a punishment

The two are almost identical.

It’s cruel. And it’s not that different from advocating the return of the cane as a punishment. If they want to wear one that’s fair enough.

ROFL

If you think your child will be traumatised by wearing a mask, or seeing others doing so, then imagine how they will feel if their teacher is in ICU because they didn't wear a mask. Dramatic? Let's hope so.

Surely some protection is better than nothing @Rosewhite12

By September I think you will find most staff at secondaries wearing.

Students will have to follow the new rules and hopefully, parents are still enforcing regular handwashing at home so it becomes the new norm.

As we have seen in Spain things can rapidly change so we may all be back online again.

All the schools in my area seem to have different plans, some are starting later and ending later so different start and end times for each year group, others are keeping students in different building with teachers moving. No plans involve a student wearing a mask and teaching staff have been told a definite no.
Undoubtedly plans will change probably days before we return

@Rosewhite12 Teachers should be supported in wearing whatever PPE they feel is necessary.

It's not about personal protective equipment though, as you rightly point out when you say Face coverings don’t actually provide much protection anyway They don't for the wearer, so that's why teachers can't just opt to do this themselves and be safer. They need the people they have to be in contact with to put the masks on.

But you don't seem to care about adults at work, or the wider families affected because the CHILDREN are not at physical risk from the virus

Secondary (overweight so more at risk) teacher here... I really want them to say we all (teachers and students) have to wear masks! The guidance, as I understand it, is that the masks won’t be effective as the class is with you for a long time, but I think they’re thinking of primary where the same teacher is with the same students all day.

We have year group bubbles of up to 150 and the students will move classrooms as usual with the teacher staying put. So under our new staggered timetable I will see c125 students a day for between 40 minutes - an hour, as well as supervising their breaks in year groups. I would just be happier all round if everyone was in a mask. Yes it would be a bit more muffled and I did feel a bit hot and uncomfortable in the shop yesterday but there are bigger issues at play here. Masks could come off outside so in our setting that’s a maximum of 1hr 40 min a student has to wear it for at a time.

I can see how hard it would be to get a four year old to understand all this, but couldn’t primary schools have the more friendly plastic visors/headbands I’ve seen small children in other countries using? Make it fun and children are pretty adaptable.

I am afraid I don't believe a classroom of year 7s in masks will do anything other than constantly poke their faces, hitch it on and off, take it off for lunch and lose it and so on.

"I have a health condition which would mean I'm exempt from wearing one at all, if I so chose, but I do wear one"

If you are able to wear one you are not exempt.

Both corporal punishment and FORCING a child to wear a covering over their mouth and nose for a significant period of time may cause that child physical discomfort and emotional and psychological damage. Remember that education is compulsory. Going into a shop is not. Travelling on a bus is not.

I'm a teacher and if I'm told I have to wear one for teaching, or the kids have to wear them, I will be vocally opposed. It's a terrible, terrible idea.
Same here.
Luckily I work in an indie school so my Head is less likely to take the knee to the unions.
For the sake of the children's mental health I hope it isn't mandated. If it is, I shall just resign as will most of my colleagues. I care about the children and this is cruelty to them. There will be plenty of educational opportunities fir good teachers outside the union controlled arena come September. A good time for education innovation perhaps. .

My DS was back at school for 6 weeks before the end of term. Not one of them caught Coronavirus so YABU. I don't agree with them wearing masks at school.

Mandatory no, optional, OK.

Wearing masks for 6 hours a day is much harder than for short periods of time. If children and teenagers have to wear them and it becomes mandatory, then everyone will have to wear them at work too, including in offices, all day long. I think teachers should be given screens and visors, maybe even a microphone. How can you talk properly and teach in a mask all day long!