To think no, there should not be additional support for people who are on holiday in Spain

[paellaandpies]

If you dashed off on holiday when it’s bleeding blindingly bloody obvious that this virus has not gone away but was just subdued by lockdown, no you shouldn’t be entitled to any extra help with having to quarantine when you come home!

Some of us haven’t seen family for months, we have taken pay cuts and lost jobs, we haven’t rushed into pubs and bars and onto beaches, precisely because we do not want to see a second spike.

If you choose to go on holiday and to travel, that’s your right and your choice and it’s not illegal, but you should have been isolating on your return anyway. Those of us who have been more restrained do not want to catch it because you couldn’t wait a bit longer for a holiday, and you’re spreading it all over the place when you get back. If you chose a holiday, you can deal with the isolation to keep everyone else a bit safer.

AIBU?

But in these instances, surely the employer pays as it was the employer that sent them?

Pays what? I'm refrering to the likes of airline crew and lorry drivers - they don't quarantine and insisting they do would stop those industries from functioning, so there goes your imported PPE, imported drugs, lots of food, etc.

A blanket ban of any travel into/out of the UK is simply not going to happen.

A ban on leisure travel I'll leave for others to debate.

I'm not sure about funding people's quarantine as I wonder where it all ends, but the notion that nobody should ever expect others to pay for their choices, even when some of them are irresponsible, is utterly bogus.... it happens all the time, look at welfare, healthcare, any kind of government grant...it happens all the time. The idea that people are vile and stupid for taking a chance during desperate times is in itself vile and stupid, and shows very little understanding of human behaviours. We can't condemn everybody who doesn't behave precisely as we would..... that would be a hideous world to live in.

That said, I'm not sure funding it is the right thing to do either because that could go on forever. I'm just not sure that all the people who went away deserve the censure on this thread either.

YABU, the people who are away in Spain at the moment went because they didn’t have to isolate on return. The lockdown has been relaxed and life is going on. If you are choosing not to participate, that’s up to you.

Hmm, the issue is that life is not quite going on as normal. Hence the reason why people who insisted on carrying on as if there isn't a bloody global pandemic going on are now in trouble.

the people who are away in Spain at the moment went because they didn’t have to isolate on return

And if they knew that much, they also knew that that situation could change without notice. They chose to go anyway, which means they were happy to take the risk, so now they haven't a leg to stand on.

It’s so blindingly obvious that travel will risk importing more cases. There’s about 10 new cases who’ve all returned from Spain recently, which is apparently why the policy changed, and places like Hong Kong are saying international travel is why they are seeing many new cases after having weeks of no cases at all.

If you chose to go on holiday when all this was so absolutely obvious, that’s your choice, but there is no way people who did not make that choice should be paying for your desire to sunbathe for a bit. And if you chose to go away and then don’t isolate when you get back, how will you feel if numbers in your area start to go up? Especially if they aren’t just numbers to you.

Think about it, if people are offered financial support due to this, it may lead to less spread of coronavirus.

I doubt it. So they get to go on holiday to Spain, have 2 weeks off when they get back, and I get to pay for it? Hmm.

Okay, so a family of 5 booked a holiday to space last autumn and it cost £4K all inclusive. Travel advice is they can go so they cannot reclaim the cost of the holiday. You honestly think that people should stay in the uk and just forget the £4K they spent on a holiday that c the government is saying they can go on?

And if you chose to go away and then don’t isolate when you get back, how will you feel if numbers in your area start to go up? Especially if they aren’t just numbers to you.

It would be interesting to know whether all these people who say they can’t/won’t quarantine when they get back are as free and easy with the health of their own families and friends as they are with the rest of us. Will they be visiting their parents and grandparents or giving them a swerve while mingling with the general population in the supermarket and the workplace?

I'm torn. This type of thing is exactly why we chose to have a holiday in the UK - the risk of lockdown or something happening while we were away and leaving us stranded was too much. However, there will be a lot of people who will be massively out of pocket (or risk losing their jobs) due to the UK Government's contradictory positions (go on holiday abroad! but it might change at the last minute so be careful)

@burdog

I'm torn. This type of thing is exactly why we chose to have a holiday in the UK - the risk of lockdown or something happening while we were away and leaving us stranded was too much. However, there will be a lot of people who will be massively out of pocket (or risk losing their jobs) due to the UK Government's contradictory positions (go on holiday abroad! but it might change at the last minute so be careful)

So what do you expect the Govt to say? Covid is a rapidly changing scenario. They've clearly said on their website "Travel disruption is still possible and national control measures may be brought in with little notice". Without a pretty good crystal ball, what more can they say? The UK govt has no control over restrictions/precautions/infections in other countries, so has to react as and when situations change.

Totally agree with you OP. Why should they be paid sick pay? They went on holiday in a global pandemic of their own choice

YANBU
If you don't want to take the risk then don't go. It really is as simple as that.

It really doesn't matter when you booked - I have trips booked since last January and I didn't go because I do not want to be worried about last-minute cancellations/ updated advice / getting sick while away. All these things are possible and the fact that they are possible has never been hidden from anyone.
If you do decide to go then you are taking a chance. I certainly don't wish misfortune on anyone - I hope that everyone who goes away has a lovely time - we've all had a miserable few months. But I don't think anyone has the right to complain about a change in the situation when it has been clear that might happen. People need to take responsibility for their own decisions, not blame the government for them.
If the government said nobody should travel, then there'd be even more complaints that people should be free to make up their own minds.

Travel advice is they can go so they cannot reclaim the cost of the holiday. You honestly think that people should stay in the uk and just forget the £4K they spent on a holiday that c the government is saying they can go on?
I think people should make up their own minds about what to do.
I personally would not go. I've already spent the 4K, so am not 'losing' it - but if I'd spent that I could not afford to go anywhere else. So I'd stay home and make the most of it, and use my holiday spending money to have as nice as time as I can manage.
Lots of other people would decide to go. But they would know that this is not a normal year, and things may not work out as they had planned. It's a hard decision - not one I'd wish on anyone - but that's just the way that it is this year. Thousands of people WILL decide to go - and will have a fantastic trip. Others may not. There is no 'right answer' to this - just a need to take responsiblity for what you do decide.

The money is already spent, the choice is to stay home or to travel. You won't be in a worse off financial situation by not traveling, in fact you are more likely to be better off as you won't be spending all that holiday money (excluding) fully inclusive breaks). So it is choice, the virus hasn't gone away, no one should be surprised by new outbreaks.

I’m in Scotland and Nicola Sturgeon warned people daily. If the choose to travel then be aware that things can change instantly or it is at their own risk. All these people are on the Scottish news saying ‘I’ve had no guidance, I didn’t know!’ Then watch the briefings she said it a lot!

I disagree I'm afraid.

People have gone on holiday because our government and the destination country have both agreed to resume tourism/ travel so they can try to rescue their economies ( works both ways, Spanish visitors have come here too ).

These people have done nothing wrong, and many are going because they had booked their holiday pre Covid and were then not able to claim a refund when the rules changed i.e travel allowed (with no isolation required at either end). Others have gone for work and others to try to relieve mental health etc

Whether or not you think they're being irresponsible is irrelevant

You can make your own choices, which is fine, but why on earth would you think you have the right to make other people suffer because they made a different choice ? Why on earth would you want all help removed ??

I get that Covid is a real and present danger everywhere around the world, but that will continue, potentially for years, and everyone cannot shield or not travel for years.

I’m in Scotland and Nicola Sturgeon warned people daily. If the choose to travel then be aware that things can change instantly or it is at their own risk. All these people are on the Scottish news saying ‘I’ve had no guidance, I didn’t know!’ Then watch the briefings she said it a lot!

Some people only hear/read what they want to and ignore the stuff they don't want to know - then jump up and down and whine when the inevitable happens!

The government is giving guidance but not really enforcing it and so putting the onus on the public to decide what to do. This is deliberate - when there is a second spike they can say, well we told you to quarantine not our fault if you didn’t.
Meanwhile they are incentivising families to go out. 🤷‍♀️
I said YANBU but it depends on a case by case basis.

I agree that if you do decide to go then you are taking a chance. We all were warned about possible changes. We personally could go as DH will be working from home one more month anyway but decided not to.
But I think that the government could give more notice (maybe 72 hours) so people could change their plans.

The government is giving guidance but not really enforcing it and so putting the onus on the public to decide what to do. This is deliberate - when there is a second spike they can say, well we told you to quarantine not our fault if you didn’t

How do you expect a government to enforce quarantine or to check that travel is "essential"?

The FCO advice has not changed: avoid non-essential travel with a warning that their travel advice is being kept under constant review plus a reminder that on return to the UK travellers may be required to follow additional UK border measures which may include self-isolation for 14 days even for low risk countries.

@Ladyks

How do you know they’re all on holiday? Maybe they have dying family members, or someone having surgery that desperately needs their help, or work, etc. Too many factors here, I think everyone needs to try and be a bit more understanding & focus on their own decisions instead of everyone else’s.

Oh I'm sure that's the majority😂