To report someone returning from Spain

[Archie1989]

A friend of my partner has said he has no intention of isolating on his return from Spain. Should I anonymously report them? My mum was on the shielding list and it’s making me quite angry. People who went abroad would know the risks during all of this....and then to refuse to isolate shows such arrogance and disregard for others.

I don’t know this person well and I don’t want to make my partner feel stuck in the middle.

You really can’t help yourself can you @Hearhoovesthinkzebras.

I am sorry you are so bitter and affected by all this. It must be terribly difficult to live with.

I’ll carry on trying to do my best in every situation. But I won’t be wearing a mask. And to be honest all you’ve done is give me a backbone and think that the people who might challenge me have no right to and they’re only doing it from a point of view of being selfish people who can’t see anything from anyone else’s point of view.

And your comment, in context, about my relationship was nasty. And you were called out on the thread by someone else for being nasty to me. So.

Anyone can search my comments and yours and see who has been baiting and goading and sniping for days.

Wish that MN would ban persistent merailers.

@Mydogisthebestest

Please stop addressing me. I've asked you twice now.

I have said nothing to you on this thread other than answer the accusations you've made against me. There was no reason for you to start in the first place.

I posted the comments about your relationship - your comment and then mine. It's not nasty and there was no context to it you've just chosen to twist it on this thread.

I don't care if you wear a mask or not. That's up to you. You do what you think is necessary for yourself and I'll do what's necessary for myself.

Now, please just leave me alone.

@madbirdlady22

lweji Gladly. Other countries are not making sensible decisions regarding Spain, because they are still allowing thousands of travellers to go there - knowing that the numbers are increasing at a frightening rate. We can also see the same being replicated in other European countries, so how is that sensible?!

Have you looked at the article I linked?

Other countries are allowing people from less affected areas of Spain to travel.
Or are mandating quarantine or tests.
Can you explain why that's not more sensible than a blanket quarantine?

And keep in mind that Spain itself is coming down on the worse affected areas, thus it's not easy to travel from those to other areas.

I’ll stop addressing you when you stop addressing me @Hearhoovesthinkzebras.

But it’s one rule for you and one for everyone else in that too isn’t it?

Wow 😮 this thread has escalated and morphed somewhat.

Why can’t people just accept the government’s guidance during this pandemic and get on with it, even if you don’t agree with it.

@Bizawit

*Someone arriving from a specified country and choosing not to isolate could potentially cause the serious illness or even death of someone else, even though not intentionally. We must all, every single one of us, do the right thing in order to help save lives*.

Whatever one’s view of the rules- their utility, sense and proportionality- it is very clearer that the rules do not include reporting your partner’s friends because you heard they might not follow them. The public have never been asked or encouraged to do that, in fact at one point the police were dealing with so many reports they asked people to please exercise some constraint

Bravo - spot on with this comment 👏

lewji

Other countries are allowing people from less affected areas of Spain to travel

This sentence makes no sense to me whatsoever

Or are mandating quarantine or tests

Testing tourists on arrival is known to not work, it has been proven over and over again that some people will not test positive with their first test, particularly if the virus has not had time to incubate, but later produce positive tests. If we mandated testing, we would have test to the same people over and over again to be sure. So I can't see that ever working. Who pays for it for one? And secondly many would obviously slip through the net and infect many others.

Can you explain why that's not more sensible than a blanket quarantine?

A blanket quarantine at this moment in time is the ONLY way to halt the spread. Cherry picking what areas are worse that others is futile if all tourists are sat together on the way home and infect each other.

In time I would expect a more sophisticated approach, but we simply do not have the tools to offer a more nimble approach at the moment.

Other countries have two choices, they continue as they are and expect big increases in their own countries (and deaths to match) or they take the same action as us.

I despair truly, on a personal note. We hear non stop bleating that the government were too slow to respond last time and should have locked down sooner, now we have the same in reverse. The government are responding robustly to a known and growing hot spot now, as we expect them to, to protect us and people are still moaning!! You could not make it up!

Please have the decency to listen to the highly qualified skilled scientists that have advised us to do this, they have devoted their whole lives to understanding the science behind coronavirus.

FFS this thread had some quite interesting posts on it but when a thread turns into a slagging match between two posters it gets kind of tedious for everyone else. How ridiculous.

@MacduffsMuff

FFS this thread had some quite interesting posts on it but when a thread turns into a slagging match between two posters it gets kind of tedious for everyone else. How ridiculous.

Hear hear. Perhaps they would like to take their argument to a separate thread.

Evening, all.

Can we draw a line under the derailing, please? We'd rather not delete the thread if possible.

Many thanks

@madbirdlady22

lewji

Other countries are allowing people from less affected areas of Spain to travel

This sentence makes no sense to me whatsoever

Or are mandating quarantine or tests

Testing tourists on arrival is known to not work, it has been proven over and over again that some people will not test positive with their first test, particularly if the virus has not had time to incubate, but later produce positive tests. If we mandated testing, we would have test to the same people over and over again to be sure. So I can't see that ever working. Who pays for it for one? And secondly many would obviously slip through the net and infect many others.

Can you explain why that's not more sensible than a blanket quarantine?

A blanket quarantine at this moment in time is the ONLY way to halt the spread. Cherry picking what areas are worse that others is futile if all tourists are sat together on the way home and infect each other.

In time I would expect a more sophisticated approach, but we simply do not have the tools to offer a more nimble approach at the moment.

Other countries have two choices, they continue as they are and expect big increases in their own countries (and deaths to match) or they take the same action as us.

I despair truly, on a personal note. We hear non stop bleating that the government were too slow to respond last time and should have locked down sooner, now we have the same in reverse. The government are responding robustly to a known and growing hot spot now, as we expect them to, to protect us and people are still moaning!! You could not make it up!

Please have the decency to listen to the highly qualified skilled scientists that have advised us to do this, they have devoted their whole lives to understanding the science behind coronavirus.

Oh, where to start?

Countries that demand tests, are asking for them before departure. Read the link I posted.
I've already explained that both strategies have problems.
And I've already explained why a 14 day quarantine won't be enough for asymptomatic travellers. And pps have pointed out how supposedly quarantining travellers could still infect people on their way home.

The only actual result from the quarantine imposition in its current terms is that people are discouraged to travel to some countries.

But it is NOT, by far, the only measure at this time.

This is NOT a strong measure by the government. It has lots of holes that have already been explained in this thread thoroughly.
It also isn't matched by domestic measures that could indeed better protect UK nationals while working, shopping, etc.

I will continue to use my brain and the knowledge I've acquired from reading the actual literature, thank you.
You can choose to trust Boris Johnson and his minions.

@MacduffsMuff

FFS this thread had some quite interesting posts on it but when a thread turns into a slagging match between two posters it gets kind of tedious for everyone else. How ridiculous.

Arrrrr man! This thread was one of the most interesting I've read for a while with some balanced opinions being thrown in from both sides to reflect on.

Before two Johnny randomers start arguing with each other on comments that they made on a completely different thread. FFS!!!

lewji but clearly if you need two or three tests before or after departure to be sure you are in the clear, then the first few results are invalid and can not be relied on. So even if testing is seen as counter measure by some countries, it clearly does not and will not work. So it is pointless.

What other measures can you suggest beyond an unsuccessful and unworkable testing option?

I am pretty sure that everyone that is anyone would have looked at this, and tried to find a solution. It is not the interests of anyone here or overseas to put old friends such as Spain on a quarantine list! It would be wonderful to avoid this scenario in order to support our travel industry, airlines and families that need to get away, but the harsh reality is that if we do not quarantine and stop the flow to and from Spain, we are going to end up with tens of thousands of deaths again.

It is SAGE that make the decisions via a committee, NOT Boris Johnson, so if you have an issue with their decision making then on what basis do you suppose they have got this wrong?

I have read your posts very carefully, and I am incredulous that you are still persisting with the idea that we can still travel to Spain safely. We can not, and I find it quite irresponsible reading posts on here suggesting otherwise.

The virus has killed hundreds of thousands of people, it will go on to kill hundreds of thousands more and yet you can not and seemingly will not acknowledge the imminent risk. You have an entrenched view that is not supported by the science lweji So I will pour a glass of wine now and save my breath.

The increase in cases is in a few specific locations. Spain is a big country and to apply a blanket quarantine isn't in line with the approach other countries are taking. And doesn't seem proportionate.

And sage doesn't make the decisions. Sage presents the government with advice. Politicians make the decisions. And it's been clear both from press briefings and leaks that the decisions made do not always tally with the advice given.

Personally I don't want to travel. I don't want to be on a plane with over 100 strangers in close proximity but I understand that others will make different choices. A close relative is in their house in Spain having travelled prior to quarantine and will now have to quarantine on return. Putting their livelihood as a business owner at risk. They wouldn't have travelled with the restrictions in place. And given our transport minister has done the same thing I don't think we can be calling these people stupid or uninformed. They were following the guidance, and indeed the example, of our government.

You have an entrenched view that is not supported by the science lweji

Well... I aplaud you for the irony.

This thread is full of answers to the questions on your post.
I suggest you read it again, and stay off the wine.

There's only so much I can keep repeating.

Madbird As i ve said on another thread, this virus is going to be around for years to come, a means has to be found to live our lives alongside it and that means foreign holidays and limiting the millions of job losses, or we take your POV and hide under the duvet util a vaccine is found but they'll be no taxes to pay for our increasingly elderly population, schools, transport, NHS etc etc.

On the 1000s of deaths, had the Govt not seeded care homes, then that number would have very much smaller.

It is SAGE that make the decisions via a committee, NOT Boris Johnson, so if you have an issue with their decision making then on what basis do you suppose they have got this wrong?

It really isn't, @madbirdlady22. Johnson made it very clear that while SAGE advises, he's the one who makes the decisions. And members of SAGE have been pretty open about him not always taking their advice.

Even the CMO has said that the decisions are Johnson's, as the PM has to add in the political element to the scientific advice.

Imo the gov are right for once you go big. After italy trying to pin it to just the north and not acting quickly enough to quarantine them and not quickly including the rest of france and spain back in march.

Also i expect spain is the biggest uk destination i think they said 600k people if 1/1000 had caught it (unlikely) thats 600 cases but also they would be all around country.
Tbh i dont really agree with quarantine free travel anyway why should the rest of the uk end up back in lockdown (or spain if all the tourists took it back).

Rapid tests which could identify it would make such a difference.

@madbirdlady22

The Prime Minister said Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty and Chief Scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance are there to give advice, but decisions are ultimately taken by ‘elected politicians’.

He said: ‘The chief scientific adviser and the chief medical officer, give us advice, which we of course take very very seriously. But in the end decisions are taken by the elected politicians and we have to weigh the advice that we get.

‘I don’t think our wonderful scientific and medical advisers would want to take those decisions for us, those are decisions for us to take’.

metro-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/metro.co.uk/2020/07/17/boris-suggests-overruling-scientific-advice-easing-lockdown-13003548/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15959699260909&amp_ct=1595970162776&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fmetro.co.uk%2F2020%2F07%2F17%2Fboris-suggests-overruling-scientific-advice-easing-lockdown-13003548%2F

Only on Mumsnet can people be “reported” for every transgression,

www.met.police.uk/tua/tell-us-about/c19/tell-us-about-possible-breach-coronavirus-measures/

Sick of hearing about how stupid and selfish people are for going abroad during this pandemic. It has been deemed “safe” for certain people to continue working out in the public domain all the way through this and now how dare they take the holiday that was booked way before all this started. No, don’t be selfish, just wave goodbye to the £2000 that you’ve literally worked your arse off for while others have been sat at home safely on 80% of their income. If advise hasn’t been given not to travel you don’t have a chance of getting a refund and if it’s really so imperative to quarantine why is there a list as long as your arm of professions that are exempt, including nurses??

I would report them. They're puting others at risk including those who have been shielding.
The website above could help or the non emergency police number to point you in the right direction.
I’m not normally one to report people but it’s reckless to put others at risk.