To report someone returning from Spain

[Archie1989]

A friend of my partner has said he has no intention of isolating on his return from Spain. Should I anonymously report them? My mum was on the shielding list and it’s making me quite angry. People who went abroad would know the risks during all of this....and then to refuse to isolate shows such arrogance and disregard for others.

I don’t know this person well and I don’t want to make my partner feel stuck in the middle.

When are people going to understand that there is no "getting rid of it"? Covid isn't going anywhere. Infection rates may slow, death tolls will fall, but this virus is here for the long term. It's not going to be all over by Christmas

Exactly this. It’s like HIV. The entire world was completely hysterical about it 40 years ago. It’s still here and many people live long and otherwise healthy lives with it.

also Tell that to the 45,000 that are now dead because of it. You can't catch HIV go to the local supermarket.

*going

@madbirdlady22

We have two options as I see it

You see it very black and white.
It's not stay at home or go out and party like mad.
There are options in the middle.

I've been going out and about on holiday, but with as much care as possible. Otherwise, I'm staying at home.
None of us can stay 100% safe, but the alternative isn't throwing caution to the wind.
We can make choices that involve some risk in some aspects, but less risk in others.

When I go out and about, while using precautions, I'm helping businesses survive.
We need to adapt to living with endemic covid. And that will mean free circulation, yes. With other measures in place.

You can't catch HIV go to the local supermarket.

You won't catch covid either if you wear a mask, keep your distance and wash your hands.

Better than keeping people who've been to Spain at home.

You can't catch HIV go to the local supermarket. no you can't, but there was a time when it was believed you could catch it from touch, drinking glasses, toilets. Covid obviously not the same, but until there is a vaccine we need more shades of grey to deal with it then this pull up the drawbridge approach with Spain. It's clear the islands are not effected but our government has taken a hammer to a walnut.

@madbirdlady22

also Tell that to the 45,000 that are now dead because of it. You can't catch HIV go to the local supermarket.

It was an example of a disease which has become part of 21st life not a direct comparison, ffs.

@madbirdlady22 there are many variations on those options.
I have been following the guidelines- apart from at the start when I met a friend for a distanced walk outdoors before it was allowed.

The guidelines currently allow people to go on holiday to many places - now this may not be a good idea and does cause consternation to those who don't want to go but won't get any money back if they don't.

Going abroad - in my mind - is not the same for example as having house parties. You may not like people going abroad, but at the minute it's not breaking any rules and it's somewhat unfair to judge people as that, when they are only following current government and FCO guidelines.

Actually I'm thinking what MN would've been like in the 80's when AIDS hit the news.

rook you know as well as I do that travelling is worse than a party, at least you can socially distance at a party and can stand outside, that is certainly not the case when you are squeezed onto a packed plane full of people. It is impossible to stay safe on a plane. Impossible because the minute you touch anything or stand close to anyone, your clothes and hair can become contaminated.

Full PPE would not be required if it was only slightly infectious. Even opticians are wearing full PPE to look at your eyes. This is a very infectious deadly disease that lives on surfaces for days. It is highly likely that given the sheer numbers that someone will be infected during transmit or at the destination.

I do not agree with the government guidance, it was eased for travelling overseas too soon. Their hand was forced because of the timing of the holiday season, and the looming court battle launched by the airlines.

And now the government guidance has changed, and you can no longer travel safely to Spain etc I expect you also support the decision to change it, other countries will join the list in the next few days. The stats are only going one way, and given the lag in both infection and death rate - in three weeks it will be obvious to everyone why the decision was made.

@madbirdlady22 ok I think we both agree that with hindsight travel restrictions were eased too early. Although you probably thought it was a bad idea at the time, so the hindsight may only be mine .

What I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't demonise people for following current government guidelines. We may not personally agree with them, but people aren't breaking any rules. As you say government is now adding in restrictions and potentially banning most travel again - when FCO guidelines change again, then people will follow them.

Impossible because the minute you touch anything or stand close to anyone, your clothes and hair can become contaminated.

Are you suggesting that if I touch, say, the back of a seat, all my clothes and hair will be contaminated?
And that won't happen at a party?
Do you really think people stay 2 meters apart in parties? And don't touch or share objects? Don't go to the loo?

God, no, don't 'report' (good luck with that!). Don't be a twat.

It is impossible to stay safe on a plane.

And yet people have travelled on the same plane and have managed not to get infected. Only those staying closer to an infectious person without masks.

Of course it's a risk, but there are several other risks in the community.
And the government doesn't seem bothered about the travel itself, of everyone travelling by plane would have to quarantine. Including within the UK.

I am starting to think that reading MN is bad for my mental health. All these judgemental, self-righteous posters, so quick to report a second-hand conversation to the police.

This virus is not ‘going away’. We have to learn to live with it, and adapt. We can’t lock ourselves away for ever, it’s not good for our health or for society as a whole. Everyone is making their own judgements and assessing risk. Its been an awful few months, and I wish people would be less keen to point the finger at others. We are all trying to live our lives as best we can within the limitations given to us.

It does make me realise how things like the Stasi were successful.

Well said @Squidsister

Everyone is making their own judgements and assessing risk.

How are all these people qualified to make their own judgements and risk assessments? Bloody hell, why aren't they advising SAGE, given that they are clearly far more qualified than the public health scientists and epidemiologists currently advising them.

Somehow I can't really see Doreen and Bert returning from a fortnight in Benidorm being more qualified than Patrick Valance really can you?

It does make me realise how things like the Stasi were successful

I think Godwin's Law needs to be extended.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Everyone is making their own judgements and assessing risk.

How are all these people qualified to make their own judgements and risk assessments? Bloody hell, why aren't they advising SAGE, given that they are clearly far more qualified than the public health scientists and epidemiologists currently advising them.

Somehow I can't really see Doreen and Bert returning from a fortnight in Benidorm being more qualified than Patrick Valance really can you?

Because everyone’s circumstances are different and one size doesn’t fit all. It’s only a few weeks ago that you were berating people for putting their dogs in their cars and driving them to exercise in an empty field because it was “against the rules”. Rules that weren’t designed for those circumstances and were completely irrelevant. Rules that had to mitigate for people with half a brain cell.

Here's one person I would definitely report if he came back from Spain ..

metro.co.uk/2020/07/28/tommy-robinson-flees-uk-relocate-family-doesnt-feel-safe-13048157/

Seems Tommy Robinson now can't fly back to the UK to shitstir. Too bad. How sad.

Somehow I can't really see Doreen and Bert returning from a fortnight in Benidorm being more qualified than Patrick Valance really can you?

And somehow, probably more than Boris, the I'll go shake hands in a hospital as numbers of covid cases are rising PM.

It will come to individual decisions, yes. Like for most pathogens, including HIV and measles virus.

At the moment it will have to be, and for the most part that's how the UK is acting, a mixture of enforcement and individual risk assessment.
Rules and recommendations can be too blunt and ineffective or too constraining, depending on circumstances.

travelling is worse than a party

Not convinced one is better than another.

Getting on a plane and going through crowded airports might be worse than a party.

Driving to a self catering cottage overseas and only having contact with people on a ferry (or on a Eurotunnel train) is a lot less risky.

However, I'll be doing neither (and no parties either). Although the non-driving thing isn't because of covid, it's because I am too wimpish to drive on the "wrong" side of the road.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

It does make me realise how things like the Stasi were successful

I think Godwin's Law needs to be extended.

There may be a case for Godwin's law to apply to itself.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Everyone is making their own judgements and assessing risk.

How are all these people qualified to make their own judgements and risk assessments? Bloody hell, why aren't they advising SAGE, given that they are clearly far more qualified than the public health scientists and epidemiologists currently advising them.

Somehow I can't really see Doreen and Bert returning from a fortnight in Benidorm being more qualified than Patrick Valance really can you?

Oh of course I wasn’t suggesting that. Don’t be hysterical. We all make judgements and assess risks everyday. Every time we drive a car, cross the road, drink alcohol etc we assess risk .... there have been lots of MN posters saying how stupid people were to go abroad in the first place and it’s all their own fault, even though the government said it was fine. I was pointing out that we shouldn’t be so quick to criticise everyone else.

How are all these people qualified to make their own judgements and risk assessments?

Eh ? Surely that's how you mange to get through life.