To report someone returning from Spain

[Archie1989]

A friend of my partner has said he has no intention of isolating on his return from Spain. Should I anonymously report them? My mum was on the shielding list and it’s making me quite angry. People who went abroad would know the risks during all of this....and then to refuse to isolate shows such arrogance and disregard for others.

I don’t know this person well and I don’t want to make my partner feel stuck in the middle.

boogie how else do you suppose we manage the quarantine? Shall we ask the local police force to place an officer outside every front door? The policy depends on people doing the right thing, and those that are selfish and ignore the guidance should expect to be reported. There is no other way I can see how it would work. If you don't want to be reported, follow the rules.

@madbirdlady22I’m sure you’ll be happy to give your name then when you report. With your intentions being so entirely honourable and all.

boogie of course, I am more than happy to leave my name. I have nothing to hide, simply by trying to protect vulnerable people.

Anyone breaking the law should expect to be reported, as you would with anything else. Given how many lives hang in the balance of all of us doing the right thing, I think the only social pariahs will be the ones that flout the rules. Don't expect people to keep silent, they won't, given silence now can kill many innocent people.

As long as you are prepared to own it... snitch away to your heart’s content. You’ll probably find that nothing will come of it anyway. Sometimes these things are hard to prove and I don’t think the police are going to be keeping houses in question under surveillance like an FBI movie.

boogie I am older than five, no snitch is not a term I would usually use.

I am fairly confident if I reported something to our local police station something would be done, but fortunately for me we are surrounded by decent people that have followed the guidance carefully, I can't see anyone here being stupid enough to not quarantine so I doubt it will be an issue.
Most employers are checking for themselves, so much of this will be taken care of anyway.

It is the travelling that is the issue. You are only as safe as the person sitting near you, or the person that passed by two hours ago using the same handle etc. I am surprised you have not thought of this, given you claim to be qualified.

I have given it some thought.
If it's the travelling that is the issue, then why aren't all passengers required to quarantine?
What's preventing tourists to go from Spain to France and flying from there?
The borders are open, as far as i know.

Once the virus is endemic in a country, and it is now all over Europe, it doesn’t matter too much whether people travel between countries, but which measures are in place to prevent transmission within that country. Like I said before, we should assume anyone can be infected. The virus is in the community.
Token measures like quarantine from flights won't make much difference as pubs are open, for example. Or public transport is still crowded.

We are seeing such a spike now in Spain, Sweden, Portugal, Belgium and others

You're definitely not seeing a spike now in Portugal.
What we are seeing is numbers that aren't as low as we'd want them, but have been stable for several weeks because of several containment measures and phased reopening.
If anything, it's coming down slowly now.

Spain has local spikes, that have been followed by local lockdowns or increased containment measures.

@Boogiewoogiebugleboy

As long as you are prepared to own it... snitch away to your heart’s content. You’ll probably find that nothing will come of it anyway. Sometimes these things are hard to prove and I don’t think the police are going to be keeping houses in question under surveillance like an FBI movie.

I think it would be taken very seriously if someone reported someone for not quarantining when they should. This is not a game, it’s people’s lives at stake. I can’t believe how many people are not taking this seriously and defending the selfish and irresponsible people who are refusing to do the right thing. I would certainly “snitch” on someone flouting the rules and would be happy to “own” it and give my name.

lweji

Many of the borders ARE still closed in Europe.

You sound like a defeatist, you have given up on the idea of containment. The virus is of course in some communities, but the idea that we should just give up and let it spiral out of control again is really such a bad idea. Tens of thousands will die and hospitals will be swamped. Is that what you want?

Surely the best course of action is to limit each population's movements and exposure.
We can do that in the same way they have managed Covid in Asia - working with careful measures, limiting social contact and distancing at all times. Travelling all over the world is not happening elsewhere.
The west may feel we are entitled to holidays and lots of mingling leisure time but we are not. If we value human life we need to adjust our lives in the short term, so that we save as many lives as possible until we have the vaccine and/or effective treatment.

Why is Lisbon still in a lockdown if there is no problem, your posts are flawed because they are inaccurate lweji

@madbirdlady22

boogie of course, I am more than happy to leave my name. I have nothing to hide, simply by trying to protect vulnerable people.

Anyone breaking the law should expect to be reported, as you would with anything else. Given how many lives hang in the balance of all of us doing the right thing, I think the only social pariahs will be the ones that flout the rules. Don't expect people to keep silent, they won't, given silence now can kill many innocent people.

I totally agree with you. I just can’t believe how many people seem to be defending those that say they won’t adhere to the quarantine rules and refer to those that are prepared to do the right thing and report them as “snitches”. Some people are just so blasé about this pandemic, they obviously haven’t been personally touched by it (yet).

Quite handy having a campervan, as no-one at Calais/Dover will have a clue if you've been outwith France or not.

I assume you are the same person that did not want us to lockdown in March, saying it is 'madness' at this stage. So exactly what stage WOULD you decide it is inenvitable?

I would argue the moment has even passed already.

You know what they say about ass-u-me.
And you're talking out of it.
Look up my posts.
But I can tell you that in the second week of March, I was already working from home, as much as possible. If anything, you may find me arguing that the UK was already too late in going into lockdown, when the numbers started rising.

As the first cases showed up in Europe, it was reasonable to expect that track and trace would work. And it seemed to be working. Until the big spreader events and before we knew asymptomatic people could be superspreaders.

Which is also one of my objections to the current quarantine. It's too short to be safe. And there's no testing associated, as far as I know. Again, I'll thought out, half arsed, token measures.

But, yes, as I said, the moment has passed. That's why it's madness now. Because the virus is all over Europe now.

Ilove I am shocked at the indifference too. I understand people are tired and fed up with it all, but now is not the time to throw caution to the wind just as the shielding are allowed to come out again (1st of August) for many. It is beyond selfish. Some of these people have not enjoyed as much as a walk in the last five months, and have been trapped inside their homes for all this time. I find it hard to believe that some of the posts can even comprehend the situation so many find themselves in.

Do we need to rerun the ICU footage perhaps? Because it seems people have very poor memories. It was a horror show, and if we are not very very careful we will have the same again. We should be glad that we can now see our families, go to the beach and work again - but if we are now expecting life to go back to what it was before surely that is going to end very badly not just for the shielding but for the whole country.

There is still every chance the second wave will crush what is left of the economy, of our children's education, our NHS infrastructure and all the rest. It is imperative that we think about this, and adapt our lives accordingly. I really hope these people are not for real, because we are in a precarious state.

@madbirdlady22

Why is Lisbon still in a lockdown if there is no problem, your posts are flawed because they are inaccurate lweji

Lisbon IS not in lockdown.
Some neighbourhoods, where transmission chains have been identified, have been under special measures, which include such draconian rules as no gatherings of more than 5 people and earlier closing times for supermarkets.

Like I said, it has been necessary to keep the pressure in the Lisbon area, but there certainly isn't a spike.

The reopening from lockdown has been slow, with some back and forth, but it is not lockdown.
Restaurants are open, we are able to go around freely, shops are open, museums are open, public transport is back to normal, theatres are open, beaches are open.

Unless you don't know what lockdown is.

lweji I find your constant grinning offensive. This is not a joke. 45,000 people have died. It is nothing to about.

The moment has not passed for the UK

We still have relatively low levels, and we can hold onto them if everyone is sensible. I certainly would not expect SAGE to say to hell with it, lets just travel all over and let the virus run wild. This is not a reasonable or safe assessment of the situation, it sounds deranged actually.

In the next few days other countries will be added to the red list, and travelling will stop, because it is fast becoming obvious to anyone of average intelligence that this is causing the virus to spread much much faster all over Europe. It seems the real experts do not agree with your solution of just giving up thankfully.

"So they went abroad in good faith"
There is a global pandemic, of course they knew the risks of going abroad, they've now to accept the consequences of their decision.

As for shopping them, as much as this would annoy me I don't know how this can possibly be policed.

I bet the paparazzi can't wait to catch all these celebrities out when they get home

The government has said five areas on the outskirts of Lisbon will remain under a partial lockdown put in place two weeks ago to tackle a worrying wave of coronavirus cases.
People will be allowed to leave home only to buy essential goods such as food or medication, or to travel to and from work

Sounds like a lockdown to me.

Restaurants are not open, nor any of the other things you describe.

www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-keeps-parts-of-lisbon-under-coronavirus-lockdown/54839

@caringcarer

Are there any numbers on gov.co.uk on Covid crisis where you can report them if not contact the police. I am worried some selfish people will do this and infect others. Boris should just ban travel for rest of this year and focus on getting rid of it before winter comes.

When are people going to understand that there is no "getting rid of it"? Covid isn't going anywhere. Infection rates may slow, death tolls will fall, but this virus is here for the long term. It's not going to be all over by Christmas, ffs.

@madbirdlady22

lweji

Many of the borders ARE still closed in Europe.

You sound like a defeatist, you have given up on the idea of containment. The virus is of course in some communities, but the idea that we should just give up and let it spiral out of control again is really such a bad idea. Tens of thousands will die and hospitals will be swamped. Is that what you want?

Surely the best course of action is to limit each population's movements and exposure.
We can do that in the same way they have managed Covid in Asia - working with careful measures, limiting social contact and distancing at all times. Travelling all over the world is not happening elsewhere.
The west may feel we are entitled to holidays and lots of mingling leisure time but we are not. If we value human life we need to adjust our lives in the short term, so that we save as many lives as possible until we have the vaccine and/or effective treatment.

Where exactly have I given the idea that we should give up and let the virus spiral out of control?

Are you on actual glue?

Is that where I keep saying that we should assume that anyone of us can be infected and apply distancing, hand washing and use personal protection equipment to avoid community transmission?

The time for blanket rules such as national lockdowns and blanket travel bans is not now.
Now is the time for surgical measures, and individual protective measures in our communities.

Better to have distancing and good ventilation in restaurants than travel bans.
Better to wear good masks in public transport than travel bans.
Better to have a properly verified quarantine, with testing at the end, than 14 days at home with no guarantees that the traveller won't still be infective after that period.

But, I understand. You have grabbed the idea that the current mandated unverified quarantine will save the UK from a second wave, and all those shielding, and you don't want to let go of it.

[quote madbirdlady22]The government has said five areas on the outskirts of Lisbon will remain under a partial lockdown put in place two weeks ago to tackle a worrying wave of coronavirus cases.
People will be allowed to leave home only to buy essential goods such as food or medication, or to travel to and from work

Sounds like a lockdown to me.

Restaurants are not open, nor any of the other things you describe.

www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-keeps-parts-of-lisbon-under-coronavirus-lockdown/54839[/quote]
What you've just posted confirms what I wrote.

So, for you 5 parts in the outskirts of Lisbon IS Lisbon.

I'm going to a concert tomorrow, after dinner at a restaurant. In Lisbon.
Does that sound like lockdown to you?

So you travel all around Spain and then come back for two weeks through France. No quarantine.
Or you get off the flight home from Spain and then get a bus / train / taxi maybe all three to get to your home address to isolate then.
We really aren’t quarantining people as a country in any real sense.
On the tv this morning a report of someone filling in the return form and then it not being collected by the airport.
We just need to follow the social distancing measures , greater hygiene etc
And let people make their own decisions as they did in lockdown.

For those questioning the use of snitch in this sense - it couldn’t be more appropriate. The word has been in use for centuries and it’s meaning is for the most part “ to inform and pass information on to the authorities.” Sorry your first thoughts were of childhood snitching

Correction:

So, for you 5 parts in the outskirts of Lisbon IS Lisbon, and partial lockdown IS lockdown?

We have two options as I see it:

Option 1) We travel, party, throw caution to the wind in the name of 'getting our lives back' and pay very little heed to the measures, and we end up with the mother of all second waves with all full lockdown for months and months, and all the health, economic and educational consequences which will be absolutely enormous. We will see the death rate rocket.

Option 2) We are sensible. We stay local, we socially distance, we choose not to mingle on busy planes or at parties. We carefully moderate our actions to limit the risk of the spread as far as we possibly can. We are thankful for the small pleasures available to us.

We then find ourselves with a spike that is carefully managed, with lower levels of transmission and we retain access to our schools, shops, jobs and lives until the vaccine arrives/successful treatment is available.

Yes it may not be as much fun, but unless you want to see another 45,000 or more dead what choice do we have?