To consider dating men who are less intelligent than I am?

[happylittletree]

Disclaimer: I know I sound like a dick.

I come from a very low class background and I have clawed my way into respectability and a decent living through sheer will and probably some measure of intelligence. In most of my life, I'm surrounded by intelligent and educated people.

I have gone through a terrible breakup and I would like to date again someday.

In a recent conversation with a lovely and very gay (male) friend, he seemed shocked that I wouldn't just go for a less intelligent man. I think he's done this.

I feel that there is a lot of cultural pressure for women to be with men who they consider to be superior in some way. I realise that I have totally internalised this.

Thoughts? Help...?

@backseatcookers while there is probably an element of feeling safe with a bully, I can differentiate between a mere bully and someone who is also intelligent (by my definition).

Btw I didn't say that I'm an intellectual powerhouse. However, most people aren't that interesting/intellectually curious/whatever.

I prefer a man who is less intelligent than me. I like to be the brainy one!

I am however, impressed by men with good practical skills. If he can build a shed or rebuild an engine he instantly becomes more attractive.

@Ultimatecougar this is an amazing username/post combination

As a transgender woman I have to be careful and generally prefer to meet men who seem to be classy and educated - maybe that's wrong Indont know.

I think there's a number of somewhat strange assumptions going on in this statement.

[quote happylittletree]@backseatcookers while there is probably an element of feeling safe with a bully, I can differentiate between a mere bully and someone who is also intelligent (by my definition).

Btw I didn't say that I'm an intellectual powerhouse. However, most people aren't that interesting/intellectually curious/whatever.[/quote]
Sorry that might have been a British-ism on my part. Rather than being a synonym for bully, bullish means aggressively confident and self-assertive. I think that might be the type of dominance you're seeking, someone who appears to be the smartest person, or one of the smartest people, in the room not because of their intellect but because they are so self assured.

For me, I like dating people who are intellectually curious. That doesn't always translate on paper. I've dated people who left school at 16 and people with PhDs. The ones I was happiest seeing were those who loved learning new stuff, had obsessive interests like me (not necessarily the same interests but the ability to have huge passions) and liked having debates / long chats about interesting stuff.

You can't have a healthy relationship with someone you look down on in any way, so of course you shouldn't date someone if they say something that makes you do that. Just don't write off people who you perceive as likely to be unintelligent based on anything other than speaking to them.

What you need is someone who is decisive

@backseatcookers I understood what you meant! I took it a step further - my STBX comes across as bullishly confident but ended up being a mean bully who puts me down constantly.

My assumptions about intelligence are based almost solely on speaking with a man. However, on OLD I instantly write off anyone who has grammatical or spelling errors in their profile.

Smarter how? As in talks non stop about something they have a specialist in? Or just think they know more than you and always say 'no I know best' over every day mundane things like what pasta to buy?

I don't really get it. My husband and I discuss decisions together. Neither of us is smarter? We're both smart?

You want someone you can have decent conversations with and is on your level.

Spelling errors could just be dyslexia but they are still very intelligent. Or maybe not. It really depends on the case. OLD is a bitch. You'd need to talk to them to find out.

Fyi there are intelligent and decisive men who are still humble and respectful or at least not 100% arrogant. I agree they can be hard to find.

I couldn't be with someone unintelligent. DH doesn't have a degree but he's intelligent. He doesn't always spell things perfectly but he can hold an interesting conversation. We can have conversations about what's going on in the world and we both understand what we're talking about which was the most important thing to me.

Also, I know I need to work on the desire to have a 'strong and superior man' to take charge. That's obviously unhealthy and will lead to emotionally abusive relationships (like my last one).
Please go back to therapy.

I have a friend. He is very self assured, very clever (scientist) but also very aware of politics, history etc. He would definately be happy I think getting to make the most of the decisions but is happy to compromise and cares about my opinions etc. He isn't physically attractive but I like his brain and self confidence, and his emotional maturity. However I've never ever felt he was superior to me. He earns a good wage in a respected job, owns his own home, progressed in our shared interest faster than me. I've still never once thought he was superior. He mentored me in a way, certainly was a good guiding friend who helped me through some difficult times. He still isn't suoerior to me. He's not inferior either, he's just different. You really need to knock all this superior / inferior crap on the head. You shouldn't be in a relationship with someone who considers you their inferior.

I can differentiate between a mere bully and someone who is also intelligent (by my definition). to what purpose? A bully is a bully and I nfact an intelligent one is probably more dangerous

OP, I guess what you are describing is vacant rather than highly educated. Some people who are not highly educated are super sharp, inquisitive, have well rounded thinking, interest in what’s going in the world. By unintelligent, I imagine you mean someone who is, for want of a better word, is a bimbo (sorry I know that’s sexist, but I guess it should be used for both men and women and then it wouldn’t be sexist).
Avoid the vacant ones like a plague.

However, on OLD I instantly write off anyone who has grammatical or spelling errors in their profile

@happylittletree So would I. There's nothing wrong with that. Leaving aside dyslexia, being unable to spell or punctuate would suggest to me that the person is likely to have been poorly educated, and doesn't read much. Anyone who reads a lot would learn an awful lot about written English by osmosis. And anyone who reads a lot is also likely to be interested in a variety of things. I don't think I've ever dated anyone who watches TV, but that's not because I set out to find people who don't watch TV - I am just drawn to people who are like me.

Leaving aside dyslexia, being unable to spell or punctuate would suggest to me that the person is likely to have been poorly educated, and doesn't read much. Anyone who reads a lot would learn an awful lot about written English by osmosis. And anyone who reads a lot is also likely to be interested in a variety of things.

I think that's perfectly fair. And someone dyslexic should, if they are serious about OLD, have someone proofread their text before posting it, if they are aware they struggle with SPAG.

I find poor grammar a turn-off on OLD too. There are only so many characters and pictures you have to make a first impression so why would you waste them. It doesn't necessarily indicate intelligence or lack thereof, more a different approach to dating.
Maybe we need this

I don't like "hw r u" type message either as it strikes me as lazy.

However, if anyone tried to act superior to me, make decisions for me or tell me what to do, that would be a complete dealbreaker so I imagine we are fishing in different ponds.

You need somebody who doesn't find intelligence a direct threat to their existence and respects your thoughts and opinions. That's different to people you have met before.

I like DP being smart, he says the same about me - because I neither have to put everything into words of five letters or fewer nor produce a full scientific paper citing all references to present to him when discussing whether to get a Miele or a Hoover washing machine.

The most important thing of all is kindness.

Being smart has a lot to do with excellent communication skills. And it consists of a host of things:

• How eloquently and clearly you speak. Your sentence structure and choice of words.
• Whether you pace yourself or rush through your monologue.
• How well you listen to others and whether you let them speak or you constantly interrupt them.
• In an argument whether you stay calm and collected or you start shouting and not letting the other one speak.

Needless to say it doesn’t have a lot to do with having a degree or any kind of fancypants qualification.

Jeez, there are clearly a lot of geniuses on this thread itching to put you in your place.

I think you're getting a hard time here, and I understand exactly what you mean. I think maybe a better way of putting it would be that you're looking for someone who is intellectual(ly curious)? On paper I am very 'intelligent' - labelled gifted at school, top marks, PhD, etc. But more importantly, and which speaks more to my character, I am constantly excited by opportunities to learn. I 100% get what you mean about lots of MDs or otherwise highly educated people lacking this thirst for knowledge and understanding. That has also been my experience. In fact, it's been my experience with lots of people with PhDs.

I met my husband by a total fluke. Due to an unusual upbringing, he doesn't have any formal qualifications, no high school leaving certificate, definitely no degrees or diplomas. I am only admitting this here because it's an anonymous forum, but when we met he was moderately into conspiracy theories and similar However, he is curious, and is constantly seeking to learn more and understand the 'why' behind everything. I recognized it the first time we met, and that was a major thing that attracted me to him. Due to his (lack of) education, he didn't have a good sense of which sources of information are trustworthy and which less so, but that's easy to overcome and is much less of an issue now.

I don't think it makes you a bad person or a dick to want to find someone who matches you in this way. You could maybe find better ways of expressing it, both to avoid pushing so many MNers buttons and to make it clearer to yourself what you're looking for.

As to where to find them, my suggestion would be to take a class of some kind that interests you - City Lit, OU, whatever organization near you offers them. Chances are you'll meet someone else on your wavelength - looking to meet other people, wanting to expand their horizons - even if it's just platonically. And if not, then at least you'll have learned something!

Sorry for the essay

Forgot to add: there are LOTS of small-minded men (and women) out there who are threatened by women who are smarter than them. I've been experiencing it since primary school. Not much you can do about them other than avoid, but do know that there are lots of people who are not threatened by this. And there will always be someone out there that's smarter than you, if that's what you're looking for!

im surprised that your posts seem to have put so many peoples backs up.

respect is massively important (for me- and it sounds like for you) i couldnt last in a long term relationship with anyone not bright. i have tried - several times- but it didnt work.

dh left school at 16 and his spelling is shite but somehow he slipped through my online dating net. he is smart and a much better match for me than someone who i dont find intellectually stimulating.

this is such an important part of YOU - dont compromise.

@Helmetbymidnight

im surprised that your posts seem to have put so many peoples backs up.

respect is massively important (for me- and it sounds like for you) i couldnt last in a long term relationship with anyone not bright. i have tried - several times- but it didnt work.

dh left school at 16 and his spelling is shite but somehow he slipped through my online dating net. he is smart and a much better match for me than someone who i dont find intellectually stimulating.

this is such an important part of YOU - dont compromise.

Perhaps because op keeps saying how she wants to date someone SUPERIOR to her who can then make all the decisions which is solo hard because the doctors and mds she's dated just aren't smart enough

It’s quite common for people who make decisions at work to want someone at home to make the decisions. I doubt it ever pans out that way but it’s unfair to pick a woman apart for wanting that.

Plenty of men I‘ve known couldn’t decide what should be for dinner to save their lives.

And can we admit that being intelligent about a specific subject like the human body doesn’t mean one must be brilliant at all other areas of life?

In the dating world it seems to be called sapiosexual. For me, it's hugely sexy if someone is super intelligent, and a massive turn off if they aren't, so I wouldn't be dating someone less intelligent than me simply because I wouldn't fancy them

The whole 'wanting someone to take charge' vibe is different

I don't need that because I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions. I want an equal. You seem to be looking for a different dynamic.

I think wanting someone else to make all of the decisions loses the allure after you’ve experienced life with someone who insists upon making all of the decisions.