To consider dating men who are less intelligent than I am?

[happylittletree]

Disclaimer: I know I sound like a dick.

I come from a very low class background and I have clawed my way into respectability and a decent living through sheer will and probably some measure of intelligence. In most of my life, I'm surrounded by intelligent and educated people.

I have gone through a terrible breakup and I would like to date again someday.

In a recent conversation with a lovely and very gay (male) friend, he seemed shocked that I wouldn't just go for a less intelligent man. I think he's done this.

I feel that there is a lot of cultural pressure for women to be with men who they consider to be superior in some way. I realise that I have totally internalised this.

Thoughts? Help...?

My DH is an academic and highly regarded in his field. I don’t have a degree. He reckons I am brighter than him! In all honesty I could not date someone without an interested and inquiring mind, regardless of their qualifications.

As lots of people have pointed out, intelligence is not as simple as that. Whatever IQ tests might like you to think. I have a post-grad. DH can rewire a house. Both of us think the other is terribly, terribly clever!! (And occasionally both of us lose the other one when trying to explain something.)

Here's a different measure which might be more helpful. Can you have conversations you enjoy with your partner? If so, stop worrying about how intelligent they might be. If not, it doesn't matter how intelligent they might be, a long term relationship is probably going to be tough.

I don't consciously worry about intelligence - it's just that if a man does or says something that I think seems unintelligent, I write him off.

But I do think that in the past I have failed to appreciate the importance of emotional intelligence. I think I am emotionally weird and cold/guarded, at least at first, which mustn't help. Looks like I need more therapy and to continue to avoid dating

It's definitely about respect and shared values and having fun, rather than intelligence or education, in my opinion.

My ex was educated to university level, as am I, loved to feel he was brighter than me (although he almost certainly isn't, he was just using that as another way to belittle me) and was controlling, a bore in conversation, awful really.

Current DP is nothing like as well educated as me or my ex, and is definitely not as bright as me - he knows it and sometimes marvels at how he has ended up with someone like me - although he is clever and practical in lots of ways, very curious and interested in all sorts of things.

We click so well and enjoy life with fun, humour and lots of emotional support for each other.

I think it's important to be able to have interesting and stimulating conversations and be on a sufficient level intellectually in order to do that. Life is long and you talk to your partner more than anyone else.

I get where you are coming from, in some cultures, men are normally seen as the “providers” and, having control of the money, they tend to hold the power/veto on decision making. Therefore having an intelligent, hard working man to make decisions becomes crucial to the standard of living the family enjoys. If you grew up in such a family structure (or are a victim of it) you are instinctually driven to replicate what you “know“ even if intellectually you know it makes no sense.

It took me many years to shake this cultural baggage off, it is quite limiting to carry that baggage with an IQ of 140+. My exh was also at that level, but he comes from a culture where matriarchy reigns, and I found it VERY VERY frustrating that he expected me to make all decisions when he was perfectly capable to decide where to go or what to do, frustration perhaps also fuelled by my culture’s own baggage where men are supposed to be strong and lead on decisions. So we are divorced now but I can tell you if it took me so many years in finding him it was because I was fixated in finding someone who wasn’t less intelligent than me but, interestingly, by focusing in finding that intelligence I managed to ignore so many red flags it is unreal.

After many years abroad (and a reducing candidate pool due to age), I have changed my idea of having a high earner man who can take all decisions, to having a man who can hold interesting conversations, has a good nature and above all, has a good sturdy spine. That makes me much happier. I have also learned that the fact I have a higher IQ, doesn’t mean they are stupid, I’m still taking the lion’s share of the decisions but that may be because I have better ideas or... because I’m bossy to boot.

@happylittletree
If I were you I would try to get to the bottom of why you would like a partner to guide you.

Nobody can guide anybody. Nobody can save anybody. You can offer you hand, but we all essentially walk alone, and that’s ok, and it’s ok for you.

I agree with pp, I think you are talking about respect, which is key to any functioning relationship. But mainly you need a partner who lets you be you, or more than that, supports you being you, and who doesn’t annoy the tits off you.
Be brave. There is somebody out there. Value yourself and go on some dates! Bonne chance

the reason I mention my gay friend is just because he's amazingly intelligent and successful,

Tch! well there you go, all the good man married or worst still Gay;!

The non gay ones, you can pinch them off their partners!! the gay ones well, would'nt really work would it;?..

Emotionally I want a man to make the decisions. Intellectually, I know that's bad.

If you're super-smart, you should be able to see that this is unhealthy and setting your relationships up to fail. You don't need to just accept that emotional need - you can change it and stop needing men to make decisions for you.

Work on your self-confidence and focus on living independently and being happy in yourself instead of looking for some ideal 'decisive' guy to attach yourself to because you're scared to be single.

I work with people that have multiple degrees and post grad qualifications but have the emotional intelligence of a tree. Be careful what you wish for.

I’m an academic and have numerous degrees. I wouldn’t say I’m intelligent, I’d say. Can write an assignment on a topic I’m asked to and make sure I meet the Learning Outcomes. I have a high IQ score but IQ tests measure how well you can pass an IQ test. I have a good memory for trivia and everyone wants me on the team in a pub quiz, but again that’s not a measure of intelligence.

Dh failed his O level in English, though he does have a degree. But I wouldn’t say he’s less intelligent than me. He has a very senior engineering job And gets flown round the world to sort out problems. I can’t particularly have in-depth discussions with him about world politics, etc but he’s not interested in that sort of stuff.

I think you’re over thinking it too much. Meet someone, do you click, is he kind, does he make you laugh, do you enjoy spending time with him? That’s what counts.

As lots of people have pointed out, intelligence is not as simple as that. Whatever IQ tests might like you to think. I have a post-grad. DH can rewire a house. Both of us think the other is terribly, terribly clever!! (And occasionally both of us lose the other one when trying to explain something.)

Exactly. I know physicists who have spectacular minds for science but have all the social skills, charm and wit of a hairbrush. Equally I know people who left school early with barely any qualifications yet run their own highly successful business which they started from scratch. You don’t get to do that especially in this climate without some measure of intelligence.

There are different types of intelligence. I couldn’t be with someone who had Stephen hawking level IQ if they were unable to hold a conversation with my friends out for dinner for example. It’s not as simple as intelligent/ non intelligent

I don’t think intelligence is everything, but I think it’s important that your partner can share your interests (that may or may not require a comparable level of intelligence) and converse with you on your level etc. It’s totally possible that you’ll find men less intelligent than you who you can have a great conversation with, share your life with and feel stimulated by. But those things are important, so I wouldn’t sacrifice them for the sake of simply having a partner, even if the partner is supportive and loving.

I'd say it depends. I personally couldn't date anyone who is massively less intelligent than me, far too sapiosexual for that. I remember being on a date with a woman (I'm bi) and any attraction that was there went completely out of the window when she went on a long rant on how annoying it is that women on the pill all continue to ovulate (not progestin-only pill, before anyone starts)...

However, I never wanted kids. We are contemplating having them at some point now that we're married but it is not something I ever even considered before meeting DH. Even now it is just a 'could be nice'

I see a lot of friends desperate for children who are either:
a) settling for a decent guy but they are still 'settling' (although most couples seem quite happy with that compromise)
b) dating a complete clusterfuck of a person but will stick with him, because they want children
or c) stay single because they cannot find a man who lives up to their standards but who are also struggling with the idea of approaching an age at which fertility slowly sails away

In that case, I would say consider settling for a decent guy who may not tick all the boxes, but most of them.

OP, you will have people falling over themselves on this thread, as on others on similar topics, to tell you that there are ‘different types of intelligence’, that they are Mensa members and their wonderful DH has never read a book but is a brilliant cabinetmaker/map reader etc, and going along with the well-thumbed Mn myth that if you’ve got multiple postgrad degrees you can’t tie your shoelaces or have the emotional intelligence of a cardboard box.

That simply wouldn’t work for me. I couldn’t be in a relationship with someone who wasn’t highly educated, a reader, had a wide-ranging general knowledge and general intellectual curiosity about the world, spoke at least a couple of languages, kept up with current affairs etc. None of that precludes emotional intelligence, kindness etc, but it’s just as necessary to me.

I totally understand where you are coming from OP. I have had a few long term relationships and the only that has lasted has been to a guy who can teach me stuff. I am intelligent (no degree but like to absorb stuff) but my two very long term relationships were with guys who, although not thick by any means, couldn't stretch my thinking in conversations.

OP I totally get you. It's not about being superior/inferior. It's about having someone you can talk to on the same wavelength, about what interests you. If you're interested in current affairs, travel and politics you want someone who at least knows who Putin is and who knows where Egypt is.

I really struggle with a couple of my relatives who have the dire combination of lack of education and no interest in finding out about the world around them. When we visit, all they talk about is what the woman over the road said/did (who cares), and things like how busy it was at Home Bargains and the plot of Coronation St. It's bad enough for an afternoon but I couldn't imagine being in a relationship with someone who couldn't have a conversation above that general level of banality.

You’ll get too irritated I suppose

Although you don’t really find out how intelligent people are until you spend a bit of time so maybe you could Issue a questionnaire? Assuming you are OLD

Or avoid people whose main hobbies are socialising, football and telly.

Never met an intelligent man who isn't incredibly annoying.

I have read all your posts and the thread but you seem quite conflicted OP. Maybe just go out with a range of people regardless if you believe to be intelligent or not or have some counselling to sort your head out! Maybe both.

These things are always relative. One person's "less intelligent" is another person's genius. I think you need to look at the whole package and weigh up whether you just get a good feeling overall about who a person is especially wrt intelligence which is a very complex characteristic. My dh is not educated or particularly quick or perceptive, but has street smarts, was hugely successful in his very competitive career and is a person everyone wants to follow and be friends with. I have nothing but admiration for what he's made out of the gifts he was born with. I'm more the brains in our family but I don't have his charisma and charm. Overall it works really well.

I think you need to think more deeply about what it is you actually want. I don’t understand if your intelligence is so great that it intimidates others, how it is that you want a man to make your decisions for you. You say you want an intelligent man, but actually it sounds like you want a dominating man?

Having spent many years in education (whilst also earning little bits of paper from uni), it is clear to me that intelligence is very subjective and almost everyone has something to offer. It just depends on whether what is on offer is what you value.

DH did not do well academically, he can be a bit slower than average to process data. He’s a very deep thinker though, a fantastic problem solver, incredibly artistic and very emotionally intelligent. He is interested in the world around him and can talk knowledgeably about politics, physics and philosophy (things that interest him) and is interested in hearing about and discussing things that interest me. He would be unable to write any academic papers and can’t do basic addition to save himself, but it doesn’t mean that he is ‘dumb‘.

The fact that we each bring different skills to the table means that we work well together running a household and we both value and respect each other for being able to do things that the other is unable to. We celebrate each other’s achievements and have both shared hobbies and separate hobbies.

We’re ‘intelligent’ in different ways, but I respect him and value his opinions. I think what you are looking for, is not necessarily an ‘equal’ or someone with identical interests, but someone who brings their own skills to the relationship which you value and admire.

Are you going to do an IQ test on them? Seriously though do you genuinely believe the 'women should be with men who are superior' nonsense?

Stop overthinking, date different people and you fall for the person you fall for. Don't fixate on men meeting minimum criteria before you can agree to a date - when did relationships become like a job interview? I know several intelligent well off men who would probably tick all the boxes but are complete and utter arseholes to anyone they date

My other half was not my type at all, he earns significantly less than me and would probably say himself that he is less intelligent, but he is the perfect balance for me because he is calm (I'm usually a big ball of stress), practical and caring.

@happylittletree
i completely get you & am in a similar situation. Im thinking better to focus on finding someone kind and with a sense of humour than the intelligent&witty but narcissistic and manipulative dicks ive put up with for the sake of IQ..Onwards &upwards-just get out there and start meeting guys aplenty..cast the net far and wide ; ) good luck.