To think that MN has become unspeakably horrible lately

[wanderings]

Yes, I know there's a pandemic on, don't we all. But in the last week or two, Mumsnet has become truly vile, it feels worse that it was at the start of lockdown. There have been threads where people have really piled on the OP, where really vile comments were allowed to stand for a long time. People have started so many "holier than thou" threads which look as if they want a bunfight. Don't tell me it's "robust debate": there has been a lot of blatant cruelty going on, with people kicking the OP when she is down.

And perhaps also it should change its name from "Mumsnet" to "Masknet". Every other thread is about the bloody masks. It's bad enough having the reality of them, without having to talk about them all the time. Could they be quarantined in the Coronavirus topic where they belong?

Mumsnet used to be a place to come to for escapism, and light reading; it makes you long for the threads about loo brushes and shoes off in the house. There's also been a real drought of fun threads, such as nostalgia ones. I've tried starting some of my own in the last couple of weeks, which have only had a few replies.

I would have ended this with "flame away", but that would make it look as if I was looking for a bunfight.

Such a hyberbolic thread title. It's a chat forum.
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It's gradually deteriorated as it's become more popular and widely used. Many of the really intelligent, witty posters have left and left behind the aggressive, here-for-a-ruck posters.

I much prefer Twitter these days - I have more control over what I read, it's far broader and I can avoid the tedious nonsense more easily.

All of us need more support these days. And Mumsnet is business as usual. So it feel like it has got worse. It’s the same and I am grateful for it.

YANBU OP.
I've been on MN since 2004 and recent posts have left me feeling sick to my stomach at how foul humans can be to each other. There are posters whose aim in life seems to be to demean others.
I considered this morning starting a "is anyone from year X" still around, just to have a bit of a chat and a laugh but would probably be accused of royalty aspirations.

So so nasty now. Even reading some of the Covid threads makes me feel dirty so God help the poor fuckers being piled on.

@Chicchicchicchiclana - you know me from elsewhere, we PMd a couple of weeks back. And I'm even less likely to get to Chiclana this year now

@FreeWillies

MN has always been the same. Ten years ago when I first joined we had these kind of threads (isn't MN nasty?) and they've always continued.

It definitely was insanely vicious at the start of lockdown but seems nornal levels of nastiness now.

Agree with you about the mask threads. The biggest complaint I have about MN is the tedious repetition and I think MNHQ should delete repetitious threads.

It's been particularly bad during CV. I counted 21 Dominic Cummings threads about Barnard Castle etc at one point and gave up trying to count 'schools going back' threads and we've had daily 'am I the only person following the rules?' threads for 4 months now.

Lazy or arrogant. Or both.

I disagree. I've been here about the same amount of time as you, and it is getting worse.

There's a difference between being direct and being unnecessarily vicious. There seem to be a load more, who operate in packs.

You always got a few, but I do think it's a lot worse now. I used to start posts in AIBU. I never to now, not worth having to wade through all the arseholes.

Also, I used to recommend MN to anyone who'd listen, I was a huge advocate for the site. I don't recommend it to anyone now. The last friend I recommended to come here with a genuine issue of the type MN used to be good at helping with, got viciously bullied - then one of the MN bullies tracked her down on Twitter under her real name and shared on the thread to find her.

It's such a shame as there's so much that's good about this site, but as long as the mods let the bullies get away with it, it'll get worse.

Never again will I recommend someone new posts here.

The site has sadly now been overrun with trolls and trouble makers.

You can tell by the huge increase in posts seemingly from people who are hard of thinking. They’re goady and deliberately obtuse. It’s made a mockery of what was once a great site for interesting debate, educational content and raising awareness around women's’ issues.

then one of the MN bullies tracked her down on Twitter under her real name and shared on the thread to find her.

I hope they were banned for that.

It's horrible. And no, it's definitely not 'robust debate' which suggests measured, educated and polite discussion based on evidence.
However I do think there has always been a lot of nastiness - as on any SM, posters say things they would simply never say IRL, and there is very little genuine debate, just binary views with no nuance.

Agree with many here.
I think we should just call out the nastiness when we come across it.
And yes, 10-15 years ago it was robust and straight talking. If someone behaved like a cunt you got to tell them so.
Now you're the one who gets told off by HQ and the sociopaths carry on. Hey ho.

Ah yes, more Mumsnet "straight talking"

I also hate the one where OP has a reasonable point but expressed herself poorly or used overly dramatic language in the OP. Then there are pages of people having a go about that when it was perfectly clear what she meant and/or it has been clarified numerous times.

I think Twitter changed how people use social media. The lack of nuance and space to fully express your meaning has spilled over onto other forums and people are have got into the habit of abrupt, cutting responses. Even if you don't use twitter yourself many people do and it's enough to make a big impact on communication styles overall.

I've been here for 12 years. I'd never start a thread these days. There are a few posters who seem to be desperate to find a way to pick apart and find a way to blame the OP for whatever it is they're having a problem with. I think it's boredom as well. People are used to conflict on social media now. No one can be bothered with kind supportive threads where everyone is just posting "YANBU, you poor thing!"

I mainly use another forum these days, and had a long break from MN during Covid as I couldn't bear the frothing at the mouth anxiety from some frankly unhinged users. Covid was ironically the reprieve from the tedious Brexit threads. I guess the lentil/pasta/flour stockpilers had the last laugh though with their hoards but I do think there needs to be better moderation of the tedious repetitive threads.

I just think MN has a lot of users with chronic mental health conditions, and a lot of "angry at life" users who use this as target practice because they can't in real life. Thankfully it's balanced with a decent amount of posters who seem to have deep rivers of common sense and empathy.

I'm just very careful which sections I go into these days.

I have not noticed a change, tbh. Some threads are fun, some are quick and straightforward, some are arsey. If you want a lovely thread, check out yesterday's wedding dress one.

Thanks for all your replies, I'm glad that others have noticed this; and thanks for keeping this one light hearted! I've had to dig really deep into my own "threads I'm on" to remember which fun threads I tried to start. Meanwhile, here is a Harry Potter one I've started. Harry Potter feels weirdly topical right now: bumbling government who were at first in denial, leaders who thrive on secrecy (Dumbledore).

I think MN has always been kind of horrible.

I also think people don't like to be disagreed with and they take that to be 'nasty' which generally it isn't.

@holidayplanningnewbie

See, I disagree. I think there were far more 'packs' pre-Jeffery but they were all well-known and long standing posters aka MN 'royalty' and I know everyone hates the term including me but that was often how it seemed back then. A very small number are still here under the same name and they're really like kittens in comparison to how they were a few years ago because they don't have the 'back up' they had before.

It's really common that the first few replies 'set the tone' for the other responses but in the past just 1 well-known poster could change an entire thread and their mates or fan girls would quickly follow.

The difference now is you have the usual AIBU pile-ons but those posters are usually just joining in saying you're U. When I was first here, it seemed much more cliquey so it wasn't just that loads of people were saying you were wrong and being nasty, it seemed like there was a cohesive group that were attacking you so it was more like bullying.

When i'd been here a few weeks I made a post that was absolutely jumped on but the group element of posters who all knew each other talking to each other about how wrong I was made it seem much more like 'you're not a MN sort of person/MN doesn't like people like you' rather than just a bunch of anonymous strangers saying you're wrong.

Mumsnet has always been racist and very disablist.

However Brexit has widened many divisions in this country and will continue to do. Austerity widened many divisions and will continue to do so, as it has not been reversed or put back to any decent levels of spending.

People want to live in their own bubbles, I'm alright jack and fuck the rest. It's amazing the amount of people who refuse to see outside of themselves, their lives and what they do. There really is a small minded, ignorant mentality across all the social classes. And some really unpleasant people in this country.

That is what it looks and feels like to me.

However, Aibu is still the place to come for interesting questions, plus chat, 90 days, 30 days etc. Relationships and the separation/divorce boards are a great help to many, as are the weightloss and all the smaller group interests. Feminism can sometimes also be a pile up though.

Then of course pregnancy, parenting and health etc are good old fashioned help and support on the Internet.

Mumsnet is still a very good thing in a rather crappy Internet.

Totally agree OP, but not just last few weeks - it's been getting worse for a while. So many pile-ons, so many posters who just love to put people down. And no (as some have suggested) it's not just AIBU

Namechangedforthis123
I think the best thing is never to include your skin colour or ethnicity as people will then use this to attack you and your thoughts. I wish I could have posted without my ethnicity as I really needed advice on how to deal with it.

You are 100% correct. It really shows the undercurrent of racism on mumsnet, when you can have 2 threads go totally different ways and the only difference was one mentioned race.

The majority like this, don't even think of themselves as racist, yet it happens time a after time.

@flirtygirl thanks for agreeing I got worried I might get backlash for even saying this!

Guys I just want to tell you one thing which I’ve done and others might wish to replicate it - I posted something under my real first name (very obvious Indian sounding name) then I posted exact same thing 2.5 months later under an English sounding name. People were nicer in their responses when they thought I was white!

Do this yourself if you don’t believe me. The worst thing that could happen is you get 2 sets of advice. Obviously don’t make something up use a real problem to get advice on

I think it’s just representative of the country as a whole. ie. over-represented by a lot of nasty cunts with a backward-looking, anti-social island mentality

What a good way of proving the OP's point about nasty people!

Also people that nit pick grammar or spelling have they considered the OP might have English as second or even third language! English is my third language btw. People on here need to stop being ignorant in my opinion.

I totally agree about the undercurrent racism that seems to be prevalent on Mn. The posters falling over themselves to seek to apportion blame to the victim who is BAME. They would never do the same with a victim who was white. The bile that is dripping from some of the posters when talking about MM. It is easy to tell what posters are racists, they show themselves.

I think I might write a book.

I'm going to call it "why I am no longer accepting the label of racist which randoms on SM and increasingly elsewhere assign to me for their own arbitrary reasons"

I think it's going to be a huge hit