12 year old arrested

[Pixxie7]

Do you think the police acted appropriately given that they had a tip off that a boy was waving a gun around.

hadenough
I cannot come to any firm view on how they proceeded once there. Everything would be assumptions. He easily looks 14. Some said 17 - debatable imo. And I’m not talking about those photos, which are old. The one in the bow tie looks even older than the school one btw. Children are killing eachother with weapons and it appears they err’d on the side of caution, which in hindsight is being viewed as heavy handed.

I do believe this is procedure

Procedure is one thing.
Attitude during that procedure is something else.

You can teach procedure. But how do you teach attitude?

@Tunnocks34

I don’t know. I don’t deny their is racial prejudice in the police force. My brother for example, is a doctor, but Pakistani, and has been stopped much more than my husband for driving offences.

However, in the instance, the reaction of the police seems completely inline with police procedure, from what I experienced, and what the officers told us at the time of our experience.

That isn’t to say I don’t understand why the mother assumed it to be related to race. The procedure is scary, and heavy handed and when you’re used to experiencing racial bias constantly it can be difficult to assume that this isn’t another instance of it.

I will also say, my husband was confused and worried, but he wasn’t scared for his life. And I wasn’t either. I know a black family likely would have had more worrying thoughts than ‘what the hell is going on here’

I’m not saying that the same police department would have reacted in the same way to a white family, but what I’m saying is, we are a middle class white family, and we were treated the same (expect for gun location) so I do believe this is procedure.

Agree.

Many of us here have been repeating that there isn't a question some people have racial bias and there is institutionalised racism in the police (well in the UK as a whole).

But you can't bring race into something where procedure was followed as it would be for anyone. It actually damages the racial relations.

The mum herself has accused police of racial profiling. Totally missing the point of what racial profiling is.

And it sounds like your DB has possibly suffered this through driving.
My neighbour is Indian and his wife white. (Both 50's)

4 doors down is an Indian family and the man is younger. (30's?)

They both say how there is a difference between how they are viewed. Same street and same demographic technically.

But they acted the same, they searched the house, found the BB gun and left.

Tunnock's husband couldn't just say it was a toy gun, the police had to verify it, just as in this case. And he was handcuffed and led out of the house in his pants.

I really can't see any difference.

I think the media, especially Channel 4 news, are fuelling racial division in a dangerous way. We don't want to end up like the US and we are not the US.
Mistrust between black people and the police is disastrous, as it just fuels more mistrust and more chance of incidents escalating. Yes there are racist police and incidents and that needs to be addressed fully, (personally I think they are in danger of being infiltrated in the UK by white extremists, and recruits and officers need to be carefully vetted). More black police are needed. Trust needs to be rebuilt. But it seems the police can do nothing right. Stop and search was brought back because knife murders went up when it was reduced. But they are accused of being racist when they stop and search, although it's mainly young black people (in London and Birmingham anyway) that are protected when knives are found or suspects caught. Police are getting the blame for issues caused by austerity and schools excluding black pupils disproportionately.
Statistics are used to fuel more mistrust and discord.

This case was clearly police following procedure. Maybe the caller was racist or malicious, but the police were following procedure. Yet once more it's reported as a racist incident, fuelling that mistrust.

@ineedaholidaynow

But they acted the same, they searched the house, found the BB gun and left.

Tunnock's husband couldn't just say it was a toy gun, the police had to verify it, just as in this case. And he was handcuffed and led out of the house in his pants.

I really can't see any difference.

There isn’t. But other real life experiences don’t matter when your pushing a victim agenda.

The article doesn’t state how they were spoken to.

We were given orders initially. ‘Lie down, hands on your head’ ‘sit down’ I asked if I could go and get my dressing gown, they said ‘NO, sit down, hands on your lap’ ‘don’t move’. We weren’t informed of anything.

Once it was established the gun was a fake, the officer in charge (I assume) apologised to us, explained what happened and took the cuffs off my husband.

I would hope everyone would receive an apology once innocence established - the article doesn’t state either way.

@Tunnocks34 but I don't think in your case and the case of the 12 yo boy - they were handled similarly. Your husband said the gun was in the car - why did they take him on his word? Would that have been the same for a 12yo black boy or his mum? You were allowed to stay in the home - they were not. You say it's because you said the gun was in the car, but it might not have been.

For all PP saying calm down, no one got hurt - you don't need a bullet in the back to be traumatised. The 12yo might not have been crying his eyes out on TV (he probably doesn't want the embarrassment) but it's highly likely the experience of having lasers pointed at your head would impact him massively.

And I agree, it would have been obvious that he was a 12 yo immediately. It was obvious in the TV interviews.

Apologies, wrong thread.

@EnoughAlready2020 they came to check the car. My Husband wasn’t reported for having a gun, the car was reported as having a gun on the dashboard.

Was almost a good analogy though @Mittens030869

@Mittens030869

Apologies, wrong thread.

Lol...oh but it fits.

[quote EnoughAlready2020]@Tunnocks34 but I don't think in your case and the case of the 12 yo boy - they were handled similarly. Your husband said the gun was in the car - why did they take him on his word? Would that have been the same for a 12yo black boy or his mum? You were allowed to stay in the home - they were not. You say it's because you said the gun was in the car, but it might not have been.

For all PP saying calm down, no one got hurt - you don't need a bullet in the back to be traumatised. The 12yo might not have been crying his eyes out on TV (he probably doesn't want the embarrassment) but it's highly likely the experience of having lasers pointed at your head would impact him massively.

And I agree, it would have been obvious that he was a 12 yo immediately. It was obvious in the TV interviews.[/quote]
I would assume because they were sat at gunpoint if the gun wasn't in the car they would have been removed from the house - as Tunnocks said.

I think it's really disrespectful posters are pushing Tunnocks to say something happened that didn't due to her race because it suits their agenda.

itsgettingweird I think it’s appalling how chomalunga in less than one page has twisted her agenda as it didn’t suit her argument when Tunnocks husband was white, to then try and make her say the police attitude would have been different.

And she isn’t getting the response she wants.

@Nicknacky

itsgettingweird I think it’s appalling how chomalunga in less than one page has twisted her agenda as it didn’t suit her argument when Tunnocks husband was white, to then try and make her say the police attitude would have been different.

And she isn’t getting the response she wants.

Sadly not surprising.

@Andthewinnerislucky

Yes it does fit, funnily enough. I suppose it fits with a lot of Mumsnet threads actually. There are always goady posters who enjoy being angry and hence provoke an argument.

Mittens fits perfectly tbh

Yes, I agree it does.

@Nicknacky

itsgettingweird I think it’s appalling how chomalunga in less than one page has twisted her agenda as it didn’t suit her argument when Tunnocks husband was white, to then try and make her say the police attitude would have been different.

And she isn’t getting the response she wants.

Agree it's disgraceful.

She is basically saying she must have been treated differently because if her race.

Shows who the racist is.

Would 'black male with handgun in inner city London' get the same response as 'white kid in middle class village with possible handgun'?

Yes ffs.

Honestly this thread is a joke.

Did you really say "why arrest someone"

Because that's the procedure in this country. You can't ask questions if a person isn't under arrest. You can't take away someone's freedom and liberty for a second if they're not under arrest.
Nothing said is admissible as evidence if a person is not under arrest.

I'm bowing out now as people clearly don't get it, don't want to listen to reason. Just want to make it about race.

Here's a parting thought. Don't fuck about with guns or toys that look like guns and you'll likely never come into contact with an armed officer. It's really that easy.

Gobbycop That’s a perfect post to end the thread.

[quote Mittens030869]@Andthewinnerislucky

Yes it does fit, funnily enough. I suppose it fits with a lot of Mumsnet threads actually. There are always goady posters who enjoy being angry and hence provoke an argument.[/quote]
Indeed.

@Gobbycop @Tunnocks34 husband wasn't arrested?

And it wasn’t a toy....