12 year old arrested

[Pixxie7]

Do you think the police acted appropriately given that they had a tip off that a boy was waving a gun around.

skin colour would have made no difference

Race is immaterial

This is such utter bullshit.

I’ve NC for this as it’s incredibly outing. It really isn’t a race thing.

About 20 years ago my mother who had mental illness had a GP call at her house because she will ill. He managed to piss her off ( not hard to do) and she told him to get out or she would shoot him with my brother gun. It was BB gun which was leaning against the side. The GP left.

The next day armed police burst through the front and back door and was screaming at my mother and my brother ( who was ten at the time) to get on the floor face down. She did get arrested and I can’t remember but the GP never turned up to court and wrote to them about her mental health so charges were dropped.

Neighbours told me that the armed police were lay on the grass directly out side my mother back garden guns pointing at the house before they came charging in.

They do come very heavy handed when firearms are involved.

I get the other stats, I do but I think fire arms call outs stand their own to be honest considering they are killing machines and must not be taken lightly

@Mummyoflittledragon just because people have said skin colour made no difference to the response is BS. Just because people say it so, does not make it so. It was a toy. It was reported as being a toy. Even on this thread it was reported as being left with family after the raid. If it was an imitation firearm they would have confiscated it. I hope littledragon is not a person of colour because you'd change your tune very quickly.

Yeah I can imagine the conversation

Reporter: I can see a male through the window of x property. They have a gun ...... (whatever was said)

Call handler: if you could just get a little closer and pop your face right up against the window to provide more information.

Hears a shot

Call handler: hello hello hello?

You don't ask Joe Public to risk their lives anymore than we should expect the police to.

Nope. Not a thought.

Our police have a hard enough time without having to put up with trial by media prompted by parents who don't own their failings

I can easily admit I'd be terrific I was in that position. Difference is, it's highly unlikely I would ever be in that position. Nor would my kids. So hard to empathise with those that make those sorts of choices.

Fair enough.

The police didn't know it was a toy or a real gun!

For goodness sake stop looking for something just because of someone's skin tone.

It's no wonder there is a racial bias when some people look for it and won't accept that it doesn't matter when the police receive a report of this nature.

[quote mathanxiety]@lifestooshort123

So now it's the fault of the mother that the boy opened the door himself at midnight, presumably after the police had identified themselves?

Presumably he had nothing to fear from the police and did as they ordered him to do?

When armed police with dogs, squad cars, sirens, lights, etc come banging on your door and demanding it be opened, do you wait to see what happens next or do you open it as quickly as humanly possible?

I have officially heard it all now. This child and his mother can't win for losing.[/quote]
Tbh I've written this earlier on the thread. Banging or not, what I'd think would have been a "normal" or safe and responsible response would be to run towards mum/parents and tell them what's happening (if they're sleeping) so they can go check it out. I thought it a completely irresponsible move for the boy to go towards the door at that time of the night, regardless who was shouting "police!" That would have been more reason to go get the responsible adult in the house first.

Didn't mum drum it in their ears to never open to door to people they don't know no matter who they say they are from a very young age?! I know I would/do. I wouldn't even expect the 23 year old daughter to do so in that situation, let alone the 12 year old. Not when I'm around (as their mum) and in the middle of the night.

Weren’t the mum and the boy in the same room, I would have woken her up if I was him

This is probably the most ridiculous thread I've ever read on the Internet.
Some utterly bizarre theories.

A black male was reported as having a handgun in a flat.
The criteria for deployment of armed officers was met.
Armed officers attended. They didn't know the gun wasn't real.
They didn't know the suspect was 12.

I'm interested to know how many people here feel it should have been dealt with. Start to finish please?
You've been asked plenty of times now but no one is replying. Just criticising.

Maybe we can inform the college of policing of the brilliant ideas, so the manual of guidance for the deployment of armed officers can be improved.

If only you knew what was involved. It isn't just a call comes in and a load of people turn up with guns making it up as they go along.
It's the polar opposite.

Hence why there are thousands of firearms jobs going on in the UK each year with a miniscule percentage ending in a shooting.

Looking forward to hearing how it should be dealt with.

The fact is if a malicious neighbour called the police stating someone in my house was brandishing a gun, they would not find one. My dcs were explicitly told we do not have toy guns I just do not want my dcs playing with them.
Whether the police target black households more than white I’m not disputing.
The fact remains my dc were not allowed guns much to my sons annoyance. I did once discover he had been given a BB gun by a friend if his, it was put in the dustbin, end of.

You can figure out how good a view the witness got by googling the streetscape and asking the witness where exactly they were standing and what exactly made them look at that particular house

Hmm... I don't know about this. This could and probably does happen if the caller isn't reporting an emergency. I doubt the caller made them think they had time to waste with what may have been said, judging by their response.

I'm pretty sure the caller's location would have been asked but the other two would depend on the report being made.

Me too gobby

Thread seems to go

"So how do you think the police should have handled it considering reports of firearms and what they did was procedural"

Response "but the boy was 12 and black and it turned out to be a BB gun"

As if those facts that were established by police following procedure mean police should have employed mystic meg and predicted this. Or risked lives of the gun owner, their family and the police whilst they established fact.

They seem to ignore why we have a 3 layered judicial system.

Arrested on suspicion
Charged on suspicion
Case heard in court - decision made if suspicion correct or not.

Malicious calls happen all the time.
The thing that is married to my dcs father has made plenty about my dd, all in the name of trying to avoid paying child maintenance.

@KatherineJaneway

In a pp someone said that the father was known by the police because of firearms offences. I notice the father has not commented at all. I appreciate he may not live there but most people would want to support their children.

@Pixxie7 It would destroy the mum's take on the story though.

Again has a father been mentioned anywhere? Or are we needing to add more fodder to our pile of "pathetic, idiot and stupid" mum stance?

Agreed the police needed to respond somehow but those that think it's appropriate that a house with children in is escalated to a potential gunfight need to check their heads honestly

Same here @Gobbycop, @mathanxiety has been asked several times what response they would deem appropriate, but funny enough hadn't got an answer.

This happened to my (white) husband recently.

Our stupid MIL bought our 7 year old a very, very realistic looking toy gun. Son opened it, and took it in the car with us to a shopping centre. We told him he couldn’t bring it in, and he gave it to me and I stupidly put it on the dashboard.

We had armed police turn up at our house in the middle of the night as someone reported us! My husband was walked to the car to retrieve the gun.

I must say, after it was all cleared up the police were lovely and apologetic, but I was terrified and confused obviously initially. Thank God the kids were staying at my parents.

There is a difference between air guns (airsoft) and bb guns that are specifically marketed as toys and are available to buy in normal high street toy shops. As far as I'm aware the only legislation regarding these toys is that they must not be soldto anyone under 18.

Air guns (Airsoft weapons) are either gas propelled or battery powered (not the type of batteries you can buy anywhere) and are much more powerful, you cannot buy these in your local high street toy shop and there is specific legislation regarding the purchase and use of any airsoft weapon. Airsoft venues/events have become big business in recent years, we have 3 within within a few miles of us and another 40 miles from us.

Regardless of all that on a dark night I wouldn't hang around wondering whether a gun being waved around was in fact a toy bb gun, an air gun or a real gun, I would get the hell out and report it.

I have family members who go airsofting and I can tell the difference close up, from a distance not a chance.

@ZombieFan

The police were not "confronted by a semi-naked man

Ummm yes they were. The mother admitted in the C4 interview that her son was 'topless'. And the police had no way of knowing what age he was when he opened the door at midnight (he looks a lot older than 12).

That boy doesn't look like "a man" (I must be in a different world tbh). It's really okay to still call him a boy while stating what he did. He doesn't have to be made into "a man" to justify deserving being shocked to stupor.

These details can still stand alone.

So mum woke up to a commotion of dogs and police. Her son had already opened the door and was cuffed.

No evidence there the police went barging in willy nilly.

@Tunnocks34 thank you for sharing your story. We're all of you (including your 7 year old) arrested and frogmarched in the middle of the night to another neighbouring street? Did you have gun lasers pointed at you all?

No one is denying that this shouldn't have been investigated, but why wasn't this family treated jn the same way @Tunnocks34 was?

Sorry no idea why that post was all bold?!

She also said the red beams were coming out of their helmets. Not from guns trained on family.

@ineedaholidaynow

Weren’t the mum and the boy in the same room, I would have woken her up if I was him

Yes that too if she was there. I think she said she was upstairs though.

@Gobbycop @itsgettingweird etc. Would the way @Tunnocks34 and her husband was treated be okay for black folk? Or is just black people that should have rifles pointed at them, be handcuffed and frogmarched to a neighbouring street. Oh and a 12 yo child to boot.