12 year old arrested

[Pixxie7]

Do you think the police acted appropriately given that they had a tip off that a boy was waving a gun around.

But the mum and daughters weren’t handcuffed in this scenario either were they, just the son. They were led out of the house but the gun was in the house, whereas in Tunnocks case the gun was in the car.

Tunnocks
Thank you for sharing your harrowing experience.

EnoughAlready

None of the other people in this incident were cuffed either from my understanding. As for taking this boy out of the house, perhaps it is variant of the same protocol / matter choice, perhaps the police were protecting him because he was a minor or perhaps it was more sinister. We simply don’t know. Anything more is conjecture.

@ineedaholidaynow yes and after the police had sorted it out etc, they told us had the gun been in the house we would have been removed from the house whilst it was searched.

@Mummyoflittledragon

To those, who have said it was bollocks when I and others have it was due to his skin colour, I am reposting this article. This time a white male. www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/bb-gun-recovered-after-armed-17806062

I get this thread is discussing a child. But the police were not informed of this from what they have said. Ergo a white Male and a black Male were treated identically. In fact this time seemingly the police burst in indicating they possibly didn’t knock on the door.

The 12 year old opened the door, wearing only shorts.

Even if the police assumed he was a fully grown man (which given his slight frame, I'd be very surprised by), 10 seconds of talking to a 12 year will confirm to anyone that they are in fact, 12.

Tunnocks husband was faced with exactly the same situation. Her description is the same

Tunnocks husband is Pakistani.

I don't know if that was in the police report.

A Pakistani man with a handgun. Especially in the current climate. Who knows how that could have escalated? Police get told they are entering a home of someone who is Pakistani (so likely to be Muslim) and has a potential handgun. What does that do to the police emotions when they go in - does it raise awareness of what they think could be a terrorist situation?

Compared to say the police being told, it's a white, middle class family and someone said they may have had a handgun?

The police have their own cognitive biases - and it's hard to shake them. Even if they go in in the same way, they still might see situations differently when they go in, depending on who they are dealing with.

@chomalungma

Tunnocks husband was faced with exactly the same situation. Her description is the same

Tunnocks husband is Pakistani.

I don't know if that was in the police report.

A Pakistani man with a handgun. Especially in the current climate. Who knows how that could have escalated? Police get told they are entering a home of someone who is Pakistani (so likely to be Muslim) and has a potential handgun. What does that do to the police emotions when they go in - does it raise awareness of what they think could be a terrorist situation?

Compared to say the police being told, it's a white, middle class family and someone said they may have had a handgun?

The police have their own cognitive biases - and it's hard to shake them. Even if they go in in the same way, they still might see situations differently when they go in, depending on who they are dealing with.

Tunnock said she is Pakistani, her husband is white.

@chomalungma

Mum herself admits they had entered and arrested her son before she even woke up

Why arrest someone?

You have the guns trained on the family. You have the power.

Why arrest someone?

I would think because the person who opened the door matched the description of the person who had had the gun. Mum herself admits not her persons were present or visible at that time.

[quote EnoughAlready2020]@Mummyoflittledragon thank you for sharing that link! No one is saying the police shouldn't have turned up armed, but even in your link, the guy wasn't handcuffed, nor arrested or frogmarched in the middle of the night to another street. [/quote]
My understanding is this was from the POV of the neighbour rather than the homeowner. There is a lot of information missing and no one knows what happened inside or indeed who was inside.

Cho where does Tunnocks say her DH is Pakistani? Don't misquote posters to make your argument. It only weakens it. She said she is Pakistani. And she wasn't handcuffed.

@chomalungma my husband is white. White and middle class. I am Pakistani.

chomalungma I think your own bias was shining through there..........

hadenough
I get the police should / will have understood they were dealing with a tween / teen on arrival. But not before. The mum is arguing as are many others that the police should not have been heavy handed on first approach. This is the point of my post quoted. Not what they discovered once there.

I think removing people from the house to search for a reported gun is pretty standard procedure. They have to secure the premises and "suspect(s)" first for everyone's safety.

They handcuffed the boy who happens to be the first "male" they saw in the house of interest. These things happen so fast and can leave one in a tizz, I imagine. The police would have to be making instant judgement calls while following protocols too.

Does the race of the family contribute to some of the judgement calls being made, I cannot say no to that. Neither am I sure it is what happened but I don't think the police went so far out (if they did) again with the intel/report (likely high/urgent but inaccurate) given.

@chomalungma also we’re not Muslim!

I would say what the police would have seen was a Volvo registered to a white, male, architect. We live in a very middle class area. I don’t know how deep they’d have looked into my husband or our family prior to reacting to the call however.

also we’re not Muslim

What I was trying to say was:

Imagine the police get a report of someone who is Pakistani and who has been seen with a handgun in a house.

Do you think they go into that house with the same mindset as going into the house of a 'white family'? Or does their mindset change - especially as they may themselves assume that its likely to be a Muslim male.

Do people think they are likely to be on the lookout for threats and maybe interpret things and actions differently because of the type of people they are dealing with?

The same actions, words etc can be interpreted by the brain differently depending on the unconscious biases. The police are likely to be on heightened threat awareness.

This BTW is not about Tunnock's husband. It's about the way the police, as well as other authority figures, treat the same situation - but may react even when there differently to the same actions because of how their brains react,

They may see certain groups as more of a threat to them. And then react to a threat that isn't there.

We live in a very middle class area. I don’t know how deep they’d have looked into my husband or our family prior to reacting to the call however

Do you think their attitude might have been much harsher if he was a Pakistani male living in a poorer neighbourhood?

chomalungma No, you clearly assumed he was Pakistani because Tunnocks34 said she was.

Just own your assumption.

But @chomalungma you said Tunnock's husband was Pakistani, you were trying to bring in race to fit your argument

@Mummyoflittledragon

hadenough I get the police should / will have understood they were dealing with a tween / teen on arrival. But not before. The mum is arguing as are many others that the police should not have been heavy handed on first approach. This is the point of my post quoted. Not what they discovered once there.

Apparently the boy opened the door with no top on, and shorts...surely one of the police could have engaged their brain and thought “hang on, this is a child”.

Even if the police proceeded on their assumption that Black children look older than they are, 10 seconds of conversation with a 12 year old should have been enough to confirm that he’s 12...instead, they arrested him.

If they hadn't done that, and marched the whole family out into the street with their hands up, the Mum wouldn't have a leg to stand on with her complaint.

Whose reputation suffers? What? Really?

BINGO!

But the caller and the police assumed 'black male' meant it was a real gun and a danger to others, even though by the time the call was made the gun was on some sort of sideboard. You are seriously twisting all of this for your own agenda, @mathanxiety

The whole case is

Handgun seen
Police call
Police respond
Parent and child upset
Nobody got hurt

Add any ethnicity, change the sex of any of those involved NOTHING would have changed.

The gun was, according to the last police report I read, an airsoft handgun deliberately intended to look as real as possible for all the milsimmers who use them. So plastic pellets in a real looking handgun.

I know how real they look, I do tactical shotgun with one, except for the recoil (which even in the best blowback models isn't quite right) it is nigh on identical to when I did it with a real shotgun.

You cheapen all of the BLM / anti racism campaigns in what you are doing here. Stop!

Unfortunately 12 year olds can be involved in gun crime

I don’t know. I don’t deny their is racial prejudice in the police force. My brother for example, is a doctor, but Pakistani, and has been stopped much more than my husband for driving offences.

However, in the instance, the reaction of the police seems completely inline with police procedure, from what I experienced, and what the officers told us at the time of our experience.

That isn’t to say I don’t understand why the mother assumed it to be related to race. The procedure is scary, and heavy handed and when you’re used to experiencing racial bias constantly it can be difficult to assume that this isn’t another instance of it.

I will also say, my husband was confused and worried, but he wasn’t scared for his life. And I wasn’t either. I know a black family likely would have had more worrying thoughts than ‘what the hell is going on here’

I’m not saying that the same police department would have reacted in the same way to a white family, but what I’m saying is, we are a middle class white family, and we were treated the same (expect for gun location) so I do believe this is procedure.

Obviously meant there not their

’m not saying that the same police department would have reacted in the same way to a white family, but what I’m saying is, we are a middle class white family, and we were treated the same (expect for gun location) so I do believe this is procedure

Do you think the police attitude towards you was the same? ie language, behaviour, believing your story?