12 year old arrested

[Pixxie7]

Do you think the police acted appropriately given that they had a tip off that a boy was waving a gun around.

@itsgettingweird
So the issue is the assumption a gun could cause a fatal accident or a fatal deliberate action?

No, the issue is the reliability of the witness and all the poor decision making that emanated from hearing 'black male' and 'gun' and not asking enough questions to ascertain what exactly was seen and how clear a view the witness got.

The procedures they follow are part of the problem, not the reason they should be excused from criticism.

I never let my children have guns, ever. Why can't parents act responsibly ?
If that was my neighbour then yes, I would want the police to act. Then I would think what a shit parent that mother is.

LizzieKane2000
Hahahah
The Mum is now a bad parent?!

Yup. I know my 12-yr old grandson wouldn't be opening the front door on his own at midnight nor would he own a bb gun. People need to take responsibility for lifestyle choices.

Is 'very lax and poor parenting' the reason the police sent a squad of heavily armed officers, dogs, ambulances at the ready, closing down two whole streets?

Is 'very lax and poor parenting' against the law now?

I know a lot of very well heeled British people who should be lined up against a wall and shot if that's the case.

This is a witch hunt, no doubt about it.

@lifestooshort123

So now it's the fault of the mother that the boy opened the door himself at midnight, presumably after the police had identified themselves?

Presumably he had nothing to fear from the police and did as they ordered him to do?

When armed police with dogs, squad cars, sirens, lights, etc come banging on your door and demanding it be opened, do you wait to see what happens next or do you open it as quickly as humanly possible?

I have officially heard it all now. This child and his mother can't win for losing.

@Peggyrose3, are you familiar with Medburn Street?

There is no way a witness could have seen what he or she claimed to have clearly seen in that house from the street.

How do you check if someone has a real gun or not without seeming racist ?
You can figure out how good a view the witness got by googling the streetscape and asking the witness where exactly they were standing and what exactly made them look at that particular house.

Your post is essentially an argument for racial profiling, which is never a good thing in either the short or the long run as an approach to policing.

If a member of the public was clearly able to see it then the boy may have been a nuisance?

But also Maybe racist neighbour fed up of noise ?
12 year old often carry weapons for older kids and adults to avoid them getting in big trouble it's part of gang culture

No 12 year old should be playing with a BB gun
Mother is weak and pathetic for suggesting the government are responsible for banning them how about being a parent and banning it from your home !!

Agree peggy it's creating more of a racial divide by constantly questioning police following procedure about whether skin colour had anything to do with it.

No one suggested it was sexist when swat teams turned up at MN Justines house due to a report that was malicious.

Boone said they shouldn't have turned up because she's a woman.

Gun or suspected firearm = ARV.

That's it. No more. No less.

[quote mathanxiety]@Peggyrose3, are you familiar with Medburn Street?

There is no way a witness could have seen what he or she claimed to have clearly seen in that house from the street.

How do you check if someone has a real gun or not without seeming racist ?
You can figure out how good a view the witness got by googling the streetscape and asking the witness where exactly they were standing and what exactly made them look at that particular house.

Your post is essentially an argument for racial profiling, which is never a good thing in either the short or the long run as an approach to policing.[/quote]
I googled. Easy as pie to see into the houses. They are all open onto the street. None had bushes or anything between street and window.

So what's your point?

No 12 year old should be playing with a BB gun
Mother is weak and pathetic for suggesting the government are responsible for banning them how about being a parent and banning it from your home !!

@nitsandwormsdodger
After all that massive effort by several different police and emergency agencies, the terrorising and humiliation of the family, and after all the frothing here about 12 year olds and what they should and should not be playing with...

...the police gave the gun back to the boy. I kid you not.

Is this yet another example of the police doing no wrong?

The posters who are saying the response was justified are doing so because the incident involved a black male, of which they're not. So they know they'll never be on the end of this type of police aggression.

No one is saying the police shouldn't have responded, but everyone in the house is as unarmed - so handcuffing and training guns at bodies was disproportionate.

Those people wondering what was said to the Met in order to warrant such a brute force response, would be met by quite a few of us by "black male with a gun".

Those people focusing on the mother are victim blaming - she did nothing illegal. Kids have had to go through enough recently and many of us have let our children stay up way longer than normal. This thread is really unearthing the racists. Commenting on how the boy is responding and his body language is disgusting. He's a kid who did NOTHING illegal.

Millions of kids play with toy guns all over the world. It isn't against the law to have one in your home.

The boy was 12. I can't believe the OP is saying legal responsibility starts at 10 so suck it up. This is a child we're talking about.

In a pp someone said that the father was known by the police because of firearms offences. I notice the father has not commented at all. I appreciate he may not live there but most people would want to support their children.

@Pixxie7 It would destroy the mum's take on the story though.

Yeah, I googled it too @itsgettingweird, because the name rang a bell from getting lost on my way to the Harry Potter Shop with relatives.

There are similar houses in other parts of Camden and they usually have the sitting room on the floor above ground level, with the ground level featuring a kitchen and dining area, and a vestibule. An uncle of mine lived in the area in the 80s while rehabbing houses.

The paved aprons are at least 2.5 wheelie bins deep. There is no way you could see into a window of a house closely enough to identify anything inside through half drawn blinds when standing on the street, and you certainly couldn't see into the sitting room from the street if the family had the usual room arrangement for that sort of house.

The police most definitely should have asked what exactly the witness saw and how he or she could have had such a clear view.

You don’t know the layout of the house and which ever way you dress is up there was a BB gun on the premises.

mathanxiety
@lifestooshort123
So now it's the fault of the mother that the boy opened the door himself at midnight, presumably after the police had identified themselves?

You're right there. Where was the responsible adult who was at the door with him? If the family reckon he's mature enough to be left to his own devices at midnight then presumably they reckon he's mature enough to deal with the shit that comes with it.

*The paved aprons are at least 2.5 wheelie bins deep. There is no way you could see into a window of a house closely enough to identify anything inside through half drawn blinds when standing on the street, and you certainly couldn't see into the sitting room from the street if the family had the usual room arrangement for that sort of house.

The police most definitely should have asked what exactly the witness saw and how he or she could have had such a clear view.*

But someone did and called the police to report what they saw.

And the police found a BB gun which looks like a real gun and the mum said the boy had the gun with him at the time, so the witness must have been able to see something. Is it possible they were in a house opposite on the same floor and could see through the window.

@ZombieFan

The police were let in the house at midnight, they were confronted by a semi naked man. They had no idea the persons age when they handcuffed someone who had been reported as 'holding a gun' whilst on a laptop. The mum when she woke up admits he was struggling against the cuffs (probably resisting arrest).

Armed police do not aim guns at the head for a 'kill' shot! After they found the bb gun they let the boy go and left.

No one was hurt because thankfully we mainly have well trained police who followed the rules to the letter.

Don't buy guns.

The police were not "confronted by a semi-naked man"; at least 5 SO19 officers kitted out in full riot gear and armed with rifles were met by a 12 year old boy only wearing shorts and no top. Hardly a threat by any stretch of the imagination.

Your choice of language is disgusting.

The police most definitely should have asked what exactly the witness saw and how he or she could have had such a clear view.

How do you know they didn't?

The police were not "confronted by a semi-naked man

Ummm yes they were. The mother admitted in the C4 interview that her son was 'topless'. And the police had no way of knowing what age he was when he opened the door at midnight (he looks a lot older than 12).

*The police were not "confronted by a semi-naked man"; at least 5 SO19 officers kitted out in full riot gear and armed with rifles were met by a 12 year old boy only wearing shorts and no top. Hardly a threat by any stretch of the imagination.

Your choice of language is disgusting.*

The police don't use the term 'man' they always use the term..male and they did find a semi naked male in the property.

Language is important.

EnoughAlready
Many people have said skin colour was for description only and would have made no difference to the police response. Articles attached way upthread are testament to this fact. Race is immaterial. How many times has this been said??! Secondly it is not a toy. Christ on a bike. Rehash. Rehash. Rehash.

You can figure out how good a view the witness got by googling the streetscape and asking the witness where exactly they were standing and what exactly made them look at that particular house.

So you want a call handler to pop onto google street view in the middle of the call, look at a potentially years out of date street view of the area, and try and guide the caller around, in order to ascertain certain things? That is just deluded and unworkable.

Long and short of it is, don't have imitation, or real firearms visible at any level, either glancing or full on, from outside of your house, at any time, it's not that difficult. They obviously did, because a member of the public was able to see it enough to determine it was a firearm, and the police found it.

Doesn't matter if it's legal to have in your own home or not, it's irresponsible. I've already said I don't do it and close my blinds whenever I know I'll have mine out in an area of my house that is even remotely visible by members of the public or my neighbours.