12 year old arrested

[Pixxie7]

Do you think the police acted appropriately given that they had a tip off that a boy was waving a gun around.

I think a lot of the posters here disagreeing with this decision should volunteer as special constables so that they can have such a wonderful impact on policing.

Many years ago I did and a lot of people don’t realise the risk our police put themselves in day after day. I’ve seen single crewed officers go to reports of a person with a knife and tackle them on their own to protect the public- this wasn’t a rare thing either it was sometimes daily. I’m not saying that every single officer in the UK isn’t racist but I don’t think ‘black’ would be the word they would focus on in this but rather ‘they’ve got a gun and could shoot someone’.

Police have to risk assess and take steps to mitigate risk and I believe they did that here. Wasn’t pleasant but if you have realistic looking toy guns this can happen. Why does a kid need a realistic looking BB gun?

Who is this "passerby" passing by in the middle of the night and looking into houses long enough to determine a gun looks real and not someone playing with/holding something? This person's eyes must be sharp.

Didn't anyone see him/her to report as a suspicious person walking along what seems like a quiet neighbourhood in the middle of the night?

What's everyone doing up at that time? People can stay up however long they want but the whole business of we're up at midnight and a passerby happens to be along just at the opportuned time to witness this "gun-waving" is quite convenient.

Wasn't this a neighbour or something or some nightwatch person? What's the ethnicity of this 'witness' btw?

So many questions...

So @mathanxiety if a white person is wielding a gun they will be covered by white privilege and the police will ignore them? Don’t think they would in this country.

My understanding is that if the police get a report that someone is seen with a gun they have a protocol to follow, doesn’t matter what colour their skin is.

The police didn’t rock up to this house on the off chance that there might be a gun there as a black family live there, they had a report that a gun had been seen and they had to respond accordingly following their protocol.

Why would anyone let their child play with any toy firearms? The level of realism is irrelevant here.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

I somehow completely missed that they arrested him AFTER establishing that the gun was fake. I assumed that they arrested him upon arrival at the house. That makes it much worse. How, exactly, did they justify that decision??

If he was using it to threaten someone, or recklessly, in such a way that it made someone fear for their own safety, then it is still an arrestable offence. TBH - I think this should have been a good lesson for this young man not to mess about with guns.

As it is, his mother has made him the centre of attention and a hero and it will probably just confirm that he can do as he likes.

You are talking nonsense now. How has his mother made him out to be a hero exactly?

Of course the police did the right thing. They had a report of someone waving a gun about, what were they supposed to do ? The fact that the boy is black is irrelevant, but, statistically, it’s a fact that in London, black boys are far more likely to be involved in violent crime than white boys, how is that racist ?
As for the Mother, utterly pathetic.

@chomalungma what do you shoot at in the house with them?

Would they knock on the door politely and say that they have had reports of a weapon here? They could then see the BB gun and realise that it was a harmless, legal BB gun.

Yes, with hindsight. Knocking on people's doors and asking when they have no clue whether it's a real weapon? Do you have any concept of the real world?

You may have not said that in words, but that's what impression I get from your comment. What's the difference? You made it clear that through your numerous comment to me. And in the future, I would think twice about the comment you make. And remember, there are millions of people who reads your post, and make their own understanding/comprehensions, who may read it differently as you assumed.

@mathanxiety

Really?

A white mother who was a good parent presumably would have the same consideration

@chrislilleyswig
I am that white mother and - hand on heart - I did not have to consider the prospect of police drawing their guns on any of my family when I gave DS a BB gun for Christmas at age 12.

Why?
White privilege.

Well I would give it consideration and is one reason why I wouldn't give a child a BB gun anyway.

@mathanxiety we don't know anything about the person who reported the percieved crime, simply that what they thought they saw made them think that calling the police was a proportional response.
If they saw me with my sons BB gun, pulling my best Lacey impression in my lounge, as a middle aged white woman, would they have joined the dots mentally in the same way ? If I am being honest, possibly not.

Oops, my last comment was direct reply to SmileEachDay. Slow typing.

@mathanxiety

When a specific report is made eg in this case giving an address, would you want police to disregard if it involves a black person?

You need to dig deeper than just the response.

You need to assess whether the passer-by assumed the black male in the house on a nice street was an intruder there and if so why.

You need to assess whether the passer-by assumed that a black male with a gun-like shape - dimly seen through a window after dark - must be wielding something real and dangerous and engaged in criminal activity.

Take a look at the Amy Cooper footage from New York's Central Park from a few months ago. Amy Cooper believed that the NY police would respond enthusiastically to the report of a white woman claiming to be under attack by a black male.

I am not stating that someone made a malicious report here, as in the Amy Cooper case. I am suggesting that the phrase 'black male doing X, Y or Z' is something of a dog whistle when it comes to police response. Amy Cooper understood that, and that is why she made the threat.

Who says a passer by assumed it was an Intruder? It isn't legal to possess a hand gun in the UK, apart from very strictly controlled use within a gun club, so it's immaterial whether they thought he was an Intruder or not. If I was walking down my road and saw a person - male or female, white, black or brown - holding what looked like a gun I would phone the police, even if I knew that it was their house because having a gun here is illegal.

Secondly, it wasn't a "gun shaped object". It was a gun. Yes, it turned out to be a BB gun but it's not like it turned out to be a cucumber or a ruler and the passer by had just assumed some random object was a gun because the person in possession was black.

It looked like a hand gun and they are illegal. Presumably a check on the address would show no legally held firearms at the address so the police no there's no legal reasons for a gun to be there.

The fat is with the parents for allowing him to have it and who allows at 12 year old to open the front door at midnight? In Islington? Bloody hell, he was lucky it was the police and not a local gang looking to rob them.

And why not draw the curtains bring aware enough of others' perceptions, particularly if holding a realistic looking gun? Although I get that in the middle of the night, one would not have expected a passerby unless it's a regular occurrence, then maintain your privacy.

Also why do people "struggle" when they're under police custody or in handcuffs? Don't they realise struggling adds nothing good to the already terrible situation and you'll just be seen as resisting arrest? Speak out, declaring your innocence over and over again - absolutely but struggling never amounts to the police deciding to no longer cuff or arrest you. Waste of time and energy, imo.

You may have not said that in words, but that's what impression I get from your comment. What's the difference? You made it clear that through your numerous comment to me

So I didn’t say it in words. Could you perhaps show me which comment I have made that gave you the impression I think the police should not deal with black people at all.

And in the future, I would think twice about the comment you make. And remember, there are millions of people who reads your post, and make their own understanding/comprehensions, who may read it differently as you assumed

Are you...um...warning me off posting? Good lord...😂

being aware....

Who is this "passerby" passing by in the middle of the night and looking into houses long enough to determine a gun looks real and not someone playing with/holding something? This person's eyes must be sharp.

Didn't anyone see him/her to report as a suspicious person walking along what seems like a quiet neighbourhood in the middle of the night?

What? It's the middle of London, not Midsommer. There are clubs, pubs, restaurants that people go to and then leave and travel home. Maybe this person is a shift worker who lives in the street. Good luck questioning every pedestrian in London late at night.

Funnily enough, it's legal to walk down a street, even at midnight, it's not legal to possess a hand gun.

He was at his own home and it was a TOY GUN!

'He was in his own home and we thought it was only a TOY GUN, sorry about the people he shot dead'. Does that sound better as a statement in court? The police are damned whatever they do.

@SmileEachDay

frumpety

As I’ve said repeatedly- I have no idea if the police response would have been different if the report had been of a white boy.

But I think it’s extremely important that we ask this question, every time.

A family member of my dd1 was raided for a gun/s. What happened to this boy is typical. They really don’t knock on the door and ask to come in.

I grew up in a town that is predominantly white. Only a few BAME families. High unemployment, council houses and high drug use. Three of the pubs closed leaving only one open. The area is rough. If you were a known face you couldn’t drink in pubs in the next town.

I’ve seen multiple police officers batter white lads/men in the street. ( before mobile phones where every where recording) I know one lad that got dragged in to the back of a police van and got leathered of the police in side it. Seen his face the next day. Dd1 family member got his front teeth kicked in by police officers when he was caught trying to rob an office in the middle of the night.

These are all white men.

White men really don’t get a ‘get out of jail free’ pass. Police brutality happens to every one

I am not warning anything, just that I have to be wary of your opinions in the future, since it's so different from mine. That is all, SmileEachDay.
I have no hidden meaning in my post, I am a foreigner, I can use English good enough, but still not my first language and have difficulty. So apologies if it sounded odd.

I’d be more worried about posters reading about you objecting to posters who mention their race

I am not warning anything, just that I have to be wary of your opinions in the future, since it's so different from mine

So you can’t show me where you got that impression from. Got it.

Your English is fine - it’s great to be more less bilingual, please don’t apologise for that.

So, maybe off-topic slightly, but what are people meant to think if they see a "toy" gun, painted blue/red/whatever, but it actually turns out to be a "real" gun that someone has painted to disguise it.

@CallmeAngelina

So, maybe off-topic slightly, but what are people meant to think if they see a "toy" gun, painted blue/red/whatever, but it actually turns out to be a "real" gun that someone has painted to disguise it.

My take away from this is that we are all meant to ignore it.

@lboogy

I'm sad that her son was traumatised because mum didn't know how to have the 'talk' with him that sadly too many black parents have to have with their sons mostly.

I think it's really sad any parent has to have that talk with their child in 2020, in the UK or the USA.