12 year old arrested

[Pixxie7]

Do you think the police acted appropriately given that they had a tip off that a boy was waving a gun around.

@SmileEachDay

Are you saying that police wouldn't have responded in the same way to a report of a white male holding a gun? I don't believe the police, particularly in London would have reacted any differently if this had been a white person

I don’t know whether the police would have acted differently in this case.

But [https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/black-people-are-being-disproportionately-targeted-by-police/amp/ this]] is why it’s really important to ask the question .

I don't know what your link shows but I would agree that in instances such as stop and search we should ask those questions but in instances where a very specific allegation has been made what would you like to happen? When a specific report is made eg in this case giving an address, would you want police to disregard if it involves a black person? Only, how can they know whether it's a crime or not unless they investigate but you seem to be criticising them for investigating it.

Of course it happens to white boys.

It happened to a friend of mine. White. Same thing, except in the garden, not in the house. And that was at least five years ago.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/black-people-are-being-disproportionately-targeted-by-police/amp/

Pardon me, I was thinking of institutionalised racism then, @PlanDeRaccordement.

[quote SmileEachDay]www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/black-people-are-being-disproportionately-targeted-by-police/amp/[/quote]
Again, how should they have dealt with this?

@mathanxiety
But why should a black mother have to think twice about deadly consequences to her and her family of giving her DS a BB gun, while a white mother wouldn't need to take into account any consideration apart from the safety of local squirrels?

Rubbish. All parents would have this consideration.

Only, how can they know whether it's a crime or not unless they investigate but you seem to be criticising them for investigating it

At no point have I criticised the police. My criticism is reserved for those who refuse to accept there may have been a racial element to this case.

I don’t know if there was - either in the way it was approached or the way it was dealt with. I don’t have enough information.

I do think there should be reflection - by the police - about whether there was. Every single time black people are dealt with. The figures in the link I have shared show why.

My child would not be treated that way because I wouldnt let them play around with a realistic looking gun.

Lots of racism on this thread from people pretending it is racist. Substitute white for black and people would be commenting on the person who made the report to the police, not criticising the police.

If he answered the door to the police waiving a realistic looking gun around he was lucky to be arrested and handcuffed and not shot.

The mother really should be ashamed of herself.

That they arrested him after establishing what kind of gun it was, as others have said, it is downplaying what it actually was to call it a toy, police would still have had to check the house and establish that it was the ONLY gun in the property.

If you want to play Whatifery consider the headlines had there been another gun, BB or otherwise, and the police had not found it.

Let alone the conversation the adults in that house needed to have about the legality and sensibility of allowing a minor have unrestricted access to a gun, BB or not.

@SmileEachDay but the police didn't target the family randomly because of their skin colour, they went to the address provided by the person reporting the percieved crime. Are you suggesting that they would have responded differently if the person reporting the crime said he saw a white male with a handgun at the address ?

I think the mum should also teach the boy/children to not open the door to anyone they don't know, particularly in the middle of the night, even if they're shouting "Police open up!". Instead to go/run and get an adult to handle it. That was quite irresponsible and unsafe.

I wouldn’t give my DS a BB gun and he is white. A pupil in his class when he was in Primary had one and he wanted to bring it in to school to show everyone. Luckily someone had a serious word with his mum to tell her what a bad idea that was.

The boy lived on a farm and so was used to firearms and would be sensible with it, but I can imagine the police response if it was reported there was a person with a gun on school premises, be it a child or an adult.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/children-young-13-been-arrested-11103035

Maybe 4 year old news but still relative.

If he answered the door to the police waiving a realistic looking gun around he was lucky to be arrested and handcuffed and not shot

Is that what happened? I haven’t seen any reporting that says it is.

@mathanxiety

...she should have taken a long look at herself and apologised to her ds for fucking up. Oh and lastly and most importantly giving photos, allowing him to be interviewed and so forth.

@Mummyoflittledragon
But why should a black mother have to think twice about deadly consequences to her and her family of giving her DS a BB gun, while a white mother wouldn't need to take into account any consideration apart from the safety of local squirrels?

She is absolutely correct to go to the press with this, and is doing so presumably on the advice of a solicitor.

Really?

A white mother who was a good parent presumably would have the same consideration

When a specific report is made eg in this case giving an address, would you want police to disregard if it involves a black person?

You need to dig deeper than just the response.

You need to assess whether the passer-by assumed the black male in the house on a nice street was an intruder there and if so why.

You need to assess whether the passer-by assumed that a black male with a gun-like shape - dimly seen through a window after dark - must be wielding something real and dangerous and engaged in criminal activity.

Take a look at the Amy Cooper footage from New York's Central Park from a few months ago. Amy Cooper believed that the NY police would respond enthusiastically to the report of a white woman claiming to be under attack by a black male.

I am not stating that someone made a malicious report here, as in the Amy Cooper case. I am suggesting that the phrase 'black male doing X, Y or Z' is something of a dog whistle when it comes to police response. Amy Cooper understood that, and that is why she made the threat.

Really?

A white mother who was a good parent presumably would have the same consideration

@chrislilleyswig
I am that white mother and - hand on heart - I did not have to consider the prospect of police drawing their guns on any of my family when I gave DS a BB gun for Christmas at age 12.

Why?
White privilege.

frumpety

As I’ve said repeatedly- I have no idea if the police response would have been different if the report had been of a white boy.

But I think it’s extremely important that we ask this question, every time.

So in short, SmileEachDay, you are saying the report should have been ignored, since the gun crime and black person is always a prejudice?
Or otherwise, what are you trying to achieve? No one said that police should have taken it seriously just because the report said " black male", they have taken it seriously because it is a serious matter.
What should police do in your opinion in these circumstances?

xolotltezcatlopoca

Where have I said anything even vaguely similar to your summary? 😂

It is really hard situation. I don’t think any 12 year old boy should be arrested for having a toy gun. The police could have handled it better, however when l lived in London I knew people that got shot in a neighbouring area so gun violence. I live in an area where 7 year olds have gun licenses. My son has a BB gun although it has a colour on it and the police wouldn’t raid my home. They might knock and ask though but more because we may or may not have a license.

I'd expect my door kicked in if I had either my real firearms or my imitation firearms visible through my front room window enough so that a passerby could identify them and report to the police, which is why I keep the blinds closed whenever I have them out in there.

[quote Cadent]@Pixxie7
Have you seen the pictures of the child? He is very obviously a child, not tall or bulky at all.

He may have been a child but I don’t think it was necessarily obvious and children kill, there is evidence of both black and white child killers let’s be honest.

Yes because there have been so many child killers sat on a sofa with a laptop open and a toy gun in their hand. With mum and sibling in the house too.[/quote]
It's interesting that the photos provided for newspaper articles show a (first day at secondary school maybe?) younger smiling child in school uniform/obviously dressed up for a day out - whereas the interview video shows a youth with adult mannerisms and an arrogant attitude. Dressed in typical casual clothing, I don't imagine it would have been at all obvious that he was a child.

I can't see reference to whether the gun was just sat on the sofa when the passer-by reported it? How would they have seen it? (Particularly as I think I saw shutters in a photo) I wonder if he was posturing with it at/by the window or making videos of it for social media. All complete supposition, but does seem unlikely that anyone could have noticed it sat on the sofa.

Guns are not toys. Waving a realistic looking "fake" around is asking for trouble. Of course armed police will respond. The local bobby isn't going to pop round for a chat.

We have a couple of BB guns - coloured ones like the ones that have been shown.

We only fire them in the house. It's not illegal to have them. We wouldn't go outside with them.

If someone outside saw us holding the weapon, they could easily jump to the conclusion that it was real. Even though half of it is blue.

I wouldn't blame the police if they came bursting in to investigate - but I suspect we would be treated differently by the police when they came in compared to other groups.

I would though expect any damage to be paid for. It's not illegal to have a BB gun.

Would they knock on the door politely and say that they have had reports of a weapon here? They could then see the BB gun and realise that it was a harmless, legal BB gun.

Or would they burst through the door with armed officers and search the building?