To ask if you are OK with your daughter's subs being spent on this?

[KatieAlcock]

I've just come to update you on my case against Girlguiding, where they expelled me for raising safeguarding concerns and for asking why we had to believe in inner gender identity to be a leader.
Girlguiding have spent AT LEAST £35,000 and probably more like £100,000 of the subs you pay for your daughter to go to Rainbows, Brownies or Guides, on defending a case against me, a committed leader who wants to make sure girls are safe and leaders have freedom of expression.

Full text of my update in the next post so as not to bore you to death!

You wasted sub money on pursuing this BS case

No that would be GG not the OP, OP has kept costs to a minimum, GG have went on a legal spending spree.

Well done and thank you for doing this Katie. I'm 100% behind you on this.

How many of you touting the safeguarding of children as bigotry are willing to let your children or children in your life be put at risk of this paedophiles dream scenario?

Thankyou for bringing this to my attention op. I had no idea.
No fucking way will my daughter be joining the organisation because of this.
I hope you win your case xx

How many of you touting the safeguarding of children as bigotry are willing to let your children or children in your life be put at risk of this paedophiles dream scenario?

Yes look what happened the last time we trusted a beloved group of adults without question. Priests were men of God right they would never do anything...

Safeguarding is never a personal attack on anyone. I'm.harmless. but I have no business joining a kids swim class or changing in the men's changing room.

I know those rules exist for a reason and do not wish to see them removed because it hurts my feelings.

The very people who think Safeguarding is inconvenient or infringes on their rights are the very people who that safguarding exists to protect us from.

Its astounding the amount of people who think you are the problem Katie

Yes, and noteworthy that the people disagreeing with her have had to invent things to berate her for because her actions are so clearly justified.

I just wanted to add that usually things have to be open to all of us. It’s usually illegal to exclude one sex.

But they are allowed to, for instance, run boy only .. say...crafts sessions, where it is a “proportionate means to a reasonable end”, where they can, for instance demonstrate that boys have less access in that particular community.

It is this exemption, “proportionate means to a reasonable end” that GG is using to stay girls only.
One of the reasons they decided to stay single sex was to ensure all girls had the opportunity; being safe for girls who didn’t feel safe with men, religious communities &etc.
Using this exemption means the leader can’t include her own husband or her own young son.

If they don’t apply this exemption fairly and consistently they will lose it. They can’t demonstrate its fair to exclude one identical twin with a Male identity and include the one with female identity.
And remember this is not transsexuals who have gender recognition certificates. This is self-ID only, no questions asked and no disclosure.

Op I’ve just donated to your crowdfunding.

I’m seriously appalled by the GG stance x

What got me was the fact that in a camp trip my daughter might have to share a tent with someone who is physically male and I had no choice in this, neither was I allowed to be informed. That's wrong. If you are happy with mixed sex join the scouts. Guides should be for girls only

KatieAlcock unbelievable that they got a whole team of lawyers to try and intimidate you like that. I’m glad you’re fighting this and you have my support. There’s no way I’ll be allowing my DD to attend GG now.

one day in the future Guides will be working towards their Katie Alcock badge

StillWeRise perfect!

Katie you are everything that the guides used to stand for; we are 100% behind you in this house

The very people who think Safeguarding is inconvenient or infringes on their rights are the very people who that safguarding exists to protect us from.
This 100%.

Any adults or organisations who think they should be immune from appropriate challenge, scrutiny or safeguarding is a massive red flag.

This. This and more this.

@Picass0L1ne

Girl guides needs to move with the times. Baden Powell was racist, imperialistic and homophobic. Funny how some characteristics can be ditched but not others.

... you keep saying you don't care or give a shit about a male being given access and overnight supervision for fbfemale children.

Imagine your female child isn't allowed to mix with males. For cultural reasons. So you send her to Guides, as a way of accessing opportunities in a female only
environment.

Now you, as a parent are made awareness that a male, who identifies as a woman, who has nothing bit good intentions, is now part of the leadership team.
Bit your belief/faith/culture prevents the mixing of sexes.

The issue here is that a FEMALE (your daughter) now has to be removed from that space and the opportunities, because a MALE wants to access it.
Why is that fair that girls are being denied opportunities because of men?
Is this transphobia? Why should the wants of a male adult trump that of a female child?

You say you don't care that your female child was on an overnight residential with a male leader. But what if your female child gets their period and is too embarrassed to tell the male because a male has no experience in the matter of how it feels to have their first period at 11yo (just as a female has no experience of what it might be like to have an erection in the middle of English)... what if your female child didn't feel like they were able to ask that male for help when they needed it?

It's easy to throw the word transphobia around and be all woke and say 'i don't care'... Until it actually affects you.

You compare scouting with Guiding. Females and males scouts are kept in separate accomodation overnight. In GirlGuiding this isn't the rule, you would easily have male 14 to sleeping in the same room as a female 14 yo, and as parents you are not allowed to be made aware of this though GG.

If you think that's fine, try inviting a 14yo boy to your daughter's next sleepover, and have him the same room as your daughter and 4 other female friends.

It's not transphobia to want to protect female spaces. Just like it's not racist to want BAME only spaces.

@WooleyJ123
"There was rightful outrage when gentlemen's clubs were prevalent, why should women need special spaces?"

Because men's only clubs were excluding women because they were women.

Women's only spaces exclude men, because they rape women, they beat women, they abuse women. So women's only shelters are NEEDED to protect females.

Women's only spaces such as GirlGuiding gives girls (females) a female only space where they are free to explore, talk, learn, lead, inspire without being intimidated by males, thinking that they aren't as good as the boys, without fear of embarassing themselves (eg, how many female 12 year olds do you know that are comfortable talking about periods in front of 12 yo boys?....)

Let's try and think of another parallel....do you think that, for example, the local homeless shelter should provide a bed for those that aren't homeless? Should I, as a home owner, be able to book myself a bed for the night? Thus denying a homeless person safe place to sleep?
I have a nice house thanks, with my own bed, that's safe. I have the keys and there's no problem me using my own bed.
But I want access to that homeless shelter space because it's outrageous that it's not accessible to EVERYONE! In fact, I identify as homeless, but will keep my house thank you...and if you say I'm not homeless, you're being house-owner-homeless-phobic.

Scouts also only became mixed sex because there weren't enough men stepping up to run them. Either they closed down the units or women could step in and help run them but that would mean they would have to have their kids come too.

Of course feminists were blamed instead

Yes, Scouting wasn't being noble!

OP thank you so much for bringing this case. I think you’re amazing. 💐

Best wishes, Katie - it's such a shame GG chose this route instead of taking your concerns seriously from the outset.

Unlike school residential trips, guides sleeping arrangements are rarely separated by age.

I’m suspenseful so many people on this thread think it is fine for 10 year old girls to share a tent with a male-bodied 16 year old.

The leaders are DBS checked but not thee guides themselves.

Are there really lots of people who are cool with young girls sharing with adolescent males?

Sorry ‘suspenseful’ should read surprised.

Sorry, I might be being slow here...are you telling me that an adult male can just decide he identifies as a female and therefore can volunteer at GG? Is there a process someone has to go through before identifying as the opposite gender? Or they can literally just wake up one morning and decide and that's that?

This whole gender/sex thing boggles my mind. I will quite openly say it's ridiculous and the world is going nuts.

ihavelostit that’s exactly it. Completely exactly that, nothing else.
For adults there is the criminal records check, training etc.

But if a leader’s babysitter falls ill, her kid could maybe come to guides if they say “I am a girl”, even if at school that day they used the urinals and wore the boy’s uniform all term.

There is nothing else.

This is the official. It’s clear that the child’s parents could still think they were a boy, they could still be a boy at school, but girl guides can accept them. www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/running-your-unit/including-all/supporting-trans-members/supporting-trans-young-members/