To ask if you are OK with your daughter's subs being spent on this?

[KatieAlcock]

I've just come to update you on my case against Girlguiding, where they expelled me for raising safeguarding concerns and for asking why we had to believe in inner gender identity to be a leader.
Girlguiding have spent AT LEAST £35,000 and probably more like £100,000 of the subs you pay for your daughter to go to Rainbows, Brownies or Guides, on defending a case against me, a committed leader who wants to make sure girls are safe and leaders have freedom of expression.

Full text of my update in the next post so as not to bore you to death!

There is a mixed version of GG - it’s called Scouts

I’m baffled at the number of women who are completely happy with the idea that women and girls should have nothing exclusively for them in order to keep men happy

I don’t think either gender should have anything for themselves at the expense of the other gender. Particularly when children are involved.

I’d like to see government guidelines re gender of adults on trips as regards safeguarding.

Me too. If it reads anything other than 'biological sex is male, then they are not allowed to share accomodation with female children' the government is failing their duty to keep their citizens safe. Gender can't be mentioned as there is no legal definition of all the different gender classes. I would love for them to try and legally define them though. Would be hilarious, no one can even agree on how many there are.

Also noticed your goal is to ensure mixed sex GG? Why? What in your eyes is wrong with single sex services?

It's not about gender it's about sex. Single sex groups/spaces are essential for many reasons.

@SmallSc00p if you're referring to PLoS, it's peer reviewed, open access. You may know I'm an academic. Do ask if you're confused about journal articles.

"I think there’s an awful lot of panic over trans people being involved in GG" I wish people could remember that it's not really about trans people.

Unfortunately what TRAs demand means removing all protections for women/girls for all time.

A good test would be to ask who actually wants that. No decent man would demand it. Remember that we don't listen to transgender people. We listen to Trans-activists. Transpeople who disagree with the party line are also abused by Trans-activists.

yes. I believe that this study has been used by activists to highlight and describe the mental health issues aspect. It is a much used study.

I would love to see any study or statistics that disprove it though. What have you read that you might refer me to?

I could link you to other statistics that have been extrapolated by reviewing cases of people convicted of sex crimes here in the UK but I feel that you would ignore them.

As I and many have said, this is a safeguarding issue particularly because parents will have the expectation that GG is single sex.

[quote KatieAlcock]@SmallSc00p if you're referring to PLoS, it's peer reviewed, open access. You may know I'm an academic. Do ask if you're confused about journal articles.[/quote]
Thanks Katie. I had forgotten that it was.

I don’t think either gender should have anything for themselves at the expense of the other gender.
While you're fudging the issue as we're talking about sex, I'm afraid the majority of people do still want single sex sports, changing rooms, youth hostel dorms etc.
It's still legal to have a single sex organisation. You may not think it's necessary but the government thinks it's ok so you will need to overturn the Equality Act to get rid of them. Sorry!

No do link Wine there was nothing in your link backing up what you said about sex crimes against women by trans women, nothing.You said there was only one study.If there are now more do link.

GG should just be for girls and everyone knows what a girl is. I imagine the vast majority of men and transwomen would respect these girls' welfare, spaces and boundaries and the idea of becoming a GG leader wouldn't even cross their minds. The problematic group is self-selecting i.e. any and all males trying to intrude on a girls' organisation. Transgirls wanting to join have to learn that others matter too and their wants certainly don't outweigh girls' needs.

Tbh, I'd imagine the biggest problem with GG allowing males to join would be star-crossed young lovers exploiting the trans loophole to sneak away together and share a tent with no supervision and the risk of a lovely souvenir from their romantic adventure 9 months later. You'd think GG top brass would have a bit of common sense but obviously not.

It's very worrying how many people are so keen to give away the rights of women and girls... GG could be a safe haven for young girls, but let's worry about the male feelings, the males who could attend scouts if they wish, but that wouldn't validate their 'gender identity'. Extremely questionable motives, and makes me highly suspicious of those who support it too.

Do we have figures for the hoards of trans women lining up to snatch guiding roles for their own selfish means?

If we're going to be thick about it, do we have figures for the trans women who aren't? Or do we not have figures for what people are planning to do at all, maybe? Go on, show us your stats.

So basically you think GG are being unreasonable for defending a case you brought against them instead of just giving in to all of your demands???

How can it ever be unreasonable to defend a case that has been brought against you?

I wish people could remember that it's not really about trans people.

Unfortunately what TRAs demand means removing all protections for women/girls for all time.

Yes. The more significant issue is that this opens the door to any predatory male who can pass a CRB wishing to claim he is trans. Statistically these are likely to be a much bigger threat than biological males who actually are trans, simply because of the numbers involved. It is an abuser's charter.

There's no reason to suspect actual trans women are any more likely to be a threat than other biological males, though that in itself is still an unacceptable risk. But we already know very well that when an opportunity for predators exists, some of them will try and exploit it. You'd think some people who are apparently so concerned with the rights of gender conforming male children and teens would actually give a fuck about the threat to those children because of this too, but it seems not.

@SmallSc00p

I don’t think either gender should have anything for themselves at the expense of the other gender. Particularly when children are involved.

Sol, then, send your female 11yo into the male changing rooms next time you go swimming. Insist your female daughter gets her first bra fitting from a male member of staff. Send her into the male toilets in the park when she needs the loo.

And when she says she's uncomfortable with any of that, call her transphobic and tell er to pipe down and she's not allowed to complain about it, and make her do it anyway. And if she continues to complain, Say, well, no more swimming for you! No proper bra fitting, sorry,and I guess you'll have to hold on for the loo....

Actually, I quoted that male patterns remained regarding criminality Smallscoops.

And male criminality in the UK is startlingly clear that males commit sex based crime at rates that far exceed females. Or do you dispute that?

Frankly I am not inclined to provide you stats and research. I linked you up with a published study whereas you have ignored it and not provided anything. The information is very easy to find and to replicate if you so desire. Just go through each conviction of a transperson in recent years in the UK. it has been well publicized and no one has produced anything to counter it.

Third fiddle how about trans women knowing they pose no risk and wanting to volunteer, enjoying their guiding community the same as anybody else.

The men know they pose no risk too. Safeguarding is never about knowing you, personally, pose no risk.

A kind transwoman would understand that a male body in an all-female space could be a problem for some girls. They'd want to make sure everything was up front with girls and parents in case it was a problem. They'd want to make sure the girls knew there was a female available if a girl didn't feel comfortable talking to them about say period issues, and make it clear they wouldn't be offended. They'd want to make sure they weren't sharing rooms with female leaders so the female leaders didn't feel pressure to be nice even if not comfortable. But really, more likely, they'd volunteer elsewhere because you never know who your presence is excluding who just quietly vanishes or doesn't join the camp.

Because this is pretty much what is happening in Girl Guiding.... There may be male present in her camp, bathroom, bedroom, tent, toilets etc.

And there's posters on this thread actually saying that if a female doesn't like it, they should withdraw from GG, or entire units should just stop activities such as camps and nights away to avoid any discomfort.... They're condoning the denying of female children opportunities and experiences.... Alok I. The name of wokeness.

And again, let’s remember this is about parents right to know that their child is safeguarded fully and has the privacy and dignity they need.

And I have been DBS checked to go on a camp and I can certainly see how these checks can be problematic and history left out.

As parents both my husband and I have helped out at camp, as have other males. But they don’t sleep in tents with guides (or even stay late) and appropriate safeguarding measures are taken when they are there.

No they absolutely shouldn’t volunteer elsewhere.

And as for letting everybody know. Posters on here proclaiming that trans women are a huge risk of being abusers kind of make that a tad difficult don’t they.

And as for letting everybody know. Posters on here proclaiming that trans women are a huge risk of being abusers kind of make that a tad difficult don’t they.

Please quote an example of someone having said that so we can see you're not bullshitting. I'll do you a favour in advance and point out now that saying they're part of a sex class posing a higher risk than the other sex class isn't the same thing as saying they are a huge risk.

Guides is not a place for males, SmallSc00p. Why are you so fixated on arguing that a particular subset of males is so special and important that the blanket ban doesn't apply to them?