To ask if you are OK with your daughter's subs being spent on this?

[KatieAlcock]

I've just come to update you on my case against Girlguiding, where they expelled me for raising safeguarding concerns and for asking why we had to believe in inner gender identity to be a leader.
Girlguiding have spent AT LEAST £35,000 and probably more like £100,000 of the subs you pay for your daughter to go to Rainbows, Brownies or Guides, on defending a case against me, a committed leader who wants to make sure girls are safe and leaders have freedom of expression.

Full text of my update in the next post so as not to bore you to death!

I've been up in the night with a sick Brownie who needed her spacer, when we were all in one big dorm. I didn't wake the other leader because I assumed I could wake the Brownie's mate in the next bed. As it turned out the girl was OK and asleep before her neighbour stirred so I gave up.

So it's ok for you to ignore safeguarding rules but not others?

You do realise that women can also be a safeguarding risk to girls too though so th argument that a trans girl is more of a risk falls at the first hurdle.

Indeed that trans girl with a penis is probably less likely to want to explore a sexual relationship with your daughters than some of the other girls there.

Glad you have more money than sense to bring a case that I am sure your barrister has given you the odds that it will more likely than not be unsuccessful in the end.

If a "boy" wants to go to girl guides he should be allowed no fuss he is a child not a sexual predator

My brother was a child and a sexual predator.

@Kit19

I assume therefore under current guidance a TW and a female leader could share a room with girls under 18

And that parents would not be informed in advance?

Leaders would never share a space with the girls.

BUT, a male 15yo 'Girl Guide' could have access to the sleeping space and bathrooms of say a 12yo female. The females would not be able to prevent this, or apparently complain, as guidance says that the male's preference is considered above any females present. So, tough fucking shit if your female daughter is hugely uncomfortable with that....

And, no, the parents would not be made aware by leaders, because they aren't allowed to say anything.

Season have you ever looked at statistics of male vs female violence?!

@nitsandwormsdodger

Don't know all the details Haven't read entire post Leaders like teachers should not express opinions or politics at all If a "boy" wants to go to girl guides he should be allowed no fuss he is a child not a sexual predator, any inappropriate behaviour is dealt with in case by case basis like any inappropriate behaviour should be dealt with On balance of probability a trans child is not going to be more of a problem than say a bully, racist or aggressive child so live and let live calm approach should be adopted And no subs should be spent with on this case, but it won't be subs they will have insurance to cover costs

Ok, so what if the unit now closes because the females don't want to share a space with a male, and they drop out... And yet another female only space is gone.

Because the wants of a males is being put above the needs of females... ?

You do realise that women can also be a safeguarding risk to girls too though so th argument that a trans girl is more of a risk falls at the first hurdle

Pah! Women are just as much of a risk to women as men are?!

How do you write this crap with a straight face?

And this is why MN gets the bad press of being transphobic.

@SeasonFinale

You do realise that women can also be a safeguarding risk to girls too though so th argument that a trans girl is more of a risk falls at the first hurdle.

Indeed that trans girl with a penis is probably less likely to want to explore a sexual relationship with your daughters than some of the other girls there.

Glad you have more money than sense to bring a case that I am sure your barrister has given you the odds that it will more likely than not be unsuccessful in the end.

Againw, for me it's not actually about the potential of sexual contact between a male guide and female one.

Personally, the erosive of female only spaces is hugely concerning. Many many people in this thread have expressed why it's SO IMPORTANT that females can have this space... But noooooo, we must allow males to infringe on female spaces, or be accused of being transphobic....

001

I’m only going by what GG say on their website. The current guidance talks about adults sharing rooms with under 18 so I assume it must happen on occasion or why would they mention it?

It’s all just a huge safeguarding risk! I don’t know what they’re thinking I really don’t

Ok. As someone from the dark side (scouting). I can understand your views and concerns but in no way does it warrant this amount of money piddled away into lawyers pockets.

Surely there had to be a better way to resolve this?

No wonder youth organisations are sinking ships and leaders on the ground are taking the hit.

Wheres the transphonia? Girl guides can explore any identity they want. Thats the beauty of a sex based group

Minx absolutely. The GG hq have been ridiculous not to engage before its got to this level, and to waste so much on the case itself.

There was a better way. GG could have admitted they made a huge mistake and rode roughshod over all safeguarding norms and got a sensible policy. As soon as their members started questioning it they dug their heels in. I suspect backed by Stonewall cash.

Indeed that trans girl with a penis is probably less likely to want to explore a sexual relationship with your daughters than some of the other girls there.

Do you actually know any teenagers?

Yes plenty

Surely there had to be a better way to resolve this?

Such as?

@Kit19

001

I’m only going by what GG say on their website. The current guidance talks about adults sharing rooms with under 18 so I assume it must happen on occasion or why would they mention it?

It’s all just a huge safeguarding risk! I don’t know what they’re thinking I really don’t

It's madness.

I can't believe that there are (apparently) female posters here arguing that female only spaces shouldn't exist. Maybe they're fortunate enough to have lived a lovely life where they don't need that space, bit to deny others, because of some woke agenda, is bizarre.

@Kit19

001

I’m only going by what GG say on their website. The current guidance talks about adults sharing rooms with under 18 so I assume it must happen on occasion or why would they mention it?

It’s all just a huge safeguarding risk! I don’t know what they’re thinking I really don’t

I would also assume that as part of the trio, parents would be made fully aware that leaders were sharing, due to the physical limitations. And (of it was our unit) leaders would not be present for bedtime changing etc. We'd probably change in the loos or wherever, way before kids were up etc

However... There would be nop parental awareness that there 11yo female might be sharing that same space with a 14yo male 😬

No "official" awareness, that is.

Don't insult women by assuming that just because they don't agree with your views means that they aren't women.

I don't think I even disagree with the premise of the case discussed here but that is pathetic, reductive and insulting.

Katie, i fully support you and pray that you win this case.

@madwoman1ntheattic I just wanted to say, you are an absolute shero, you are exactly the type of gg leader girls need and I desperately hope this is sorted out before my DD becomes of age because I would love for her to be involved in gg.

I fully support women only spaces
I Fully support trans child attending girl guides

I Accept children can be sexual offenders
I Hate the idea of treating a child like a potential sex offender

Complicated issues

I Hate the idea of treating a child like a potential sex offender

Do you regard boys at school having separate changing rooms from girls as treating them as potential sex offenders?

Seems to me that one lot of trans children lose out either way. Either it is transboys or it is transgirls.

If GG picks to take transboys, and female children who identify as NB, then they'll still be accessible to girls from conservative muslim families who won't permit them to attend mixed sex activities. And for the girls from more moderate families, who would be permitted to attend mixed sex groups, they will benefit from it being single sex as they'll be able to choose not to wear hijab.