To think it is appalling Asda are using disabled spaces?

[NightSpot]

For their click and collect orders?

Our Asda has a hut in the middle of the carpark. During lockdown understandably this became busy and was blocking the flow of traffic so they moved click and collect to the side of the store. All fine.

Went to get my order for the first time ina few weeks and realise they have now moved it to the other side of the carpark.. using the disabled bays as the collection point.

Yes, they have other disabled bays, but as I understood it they needed a certain amount or they wouldnt have been originally installed? When questioned, they said it was because they are only using one of the entrances, "hardly anyone " was using them. Surely that is not the point? They are there for a reason! And the queues to the entrance they are using are quite often up to these ones anyway so the person would have to walk further to reach the end of the queue!

Don't be so nieve. My local asda never has free bb or p&c. Do they increase bb, or change some p&c to bb. Do they fuck. In fact they just got rid of some to put in click and collect and parking for the amazon drop box delivery van.

I am not naive, I just work in retail and have experience of being part of the decision making process with regards to service provisions and changes. Things other than customers have to be taken into account when making decisions. As long as the decisions are legal, Health and Safety of customers and colleagues is topmost even before customer satisfaction and I can think of half a dozen reasons why a home shopping collection point might be relocated to a disabled parking bay as a temporary measure if there are no other places that it can be put to comply with insurance, legal and health and safety rules.

The OPs store still has disabled parking available therefore they have done nothing illegal in temporarily repurposing some disabled spaces.

You can see injustice in things even when they don’t directly affect you.

But where is the injustice? There are still disabled bays available and the OP has not said that they were full. If the disabled bays that have been temporarily repurposed were needed because the other bays are constantly full then I could understand being upset, but since the OP hasn't said this is the case then clearly there is still enough disabled spaces available for the volume of customers who require them.

New wheelchair user, here.
Been disabled my whole life but it's progressively worse with time.
We have been shocked that in some places we haven't been able to get a disabled space at all, because many are roped off and the rest are in use. I'm still seeing arseholes without badges using the spaces too.
If we don't get a proper space, we can't get me out.
And I have as much right as anyone else to get out now.
I didn't for the first few months of lockdown even though I could have waved my autism diagnosis and made a fuss about my mental health.
I waited. It's been super hard but it was morally the right thing, for me.
And now, I try to go out, and can't get my wheelchair out because we've had to park elsewhere.
Before the wheelchair, my partner did all the shopping between his work shifts because I couldn't stand and wait in the queue at the supermarket.
This pandemic has put accessibility for disabled people so far back it's unreal.

Yawwwwwn
It has put things so far back for us. But perish the thought we disabled should complain. Or point out that repurposing spaces close to the store makes things even harder for us. Selfish. That’s what we are. Only thinking of ourselves. Oh.... wait....

So the OP didn't have a problem parking because there were enough free disabled bays- but just want there to be more empty bays than is necessary 'on principle' and have everyone else inconvenienced as a result.

So sorry the disabled inconvenience you. Perhaps we should all be put back in asylums like Victorian England.

@iklboo

'Precious' for wanting disabled bays to be used for the proper purpose? Christ, I've seen it all now.

What’s wrong with temporarily using some of the disabled spaces for C&C at the moment, when there is a huge increase in this and Online shopping? Ultimately this will make it so much easier for the supermarket, and increase the availability of these services, by making the collection point closer to the store!

Disability spaces are in a reduced demand at the moment, because of people like me, who have not visited a supermarket since before lockdown in March, until yesterday! There were disabled spaces out of action due to C&C, but I got parked in the disabled spaces (even closer than normal) to the entrance, because despite there being a queue to enter the supermarket, there were hardly any cars in the reduced number of disabled spaces!

It’s people like you, who think there should be lots of empty disabled spaces (on the principle of just having them, even though they aren’t being used), who are quite frankly being “precious”! If you have a BB, and can’t get a space fair enough, but that is just not happening at most supermarkets due to the reduced demand! The disabled spaces at my local supermarket will increase again as and when there is the need.

All our supermarkets have a huge amount of disabled bays and rarely are any of them used. I've never seen them even half full let alone full not even at the busiest times so I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

All our supermarkets have a huge amount of disabled bays and rarely are any of them used. I've never seen them even half full let alone full not even at the busiest times so I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

You honestly think that supermarkets have at least twice as many disabled spaces as are actually used? Why would they do that? If they have so many then they must be over the required number - why would they keep them if they are unused?

There are so many BB holders on this thread saying they struggle to find spaces - are they lying? Why would they be?

It’s people like you, who think there should be lots of empty disabled spaces (on the principle of just having them, even though they aren’t being used), who are quite frankly being “precious”! If you have a BB, and can’t get a space fair enough, but that is just not happening at most supermarkets due to the reduced demand! The disabled spaces at my local supermarket will increase again as and when there is the need.

I don't have, or need, a blue badge. I don't even drive. But my parents do. And they quite often struggle to find a disabled parking space at the supermarket near them. If all supermarkets did this they'd have even more trouble finding somewhere to park. If being concerned about my parents is 'precious' so be it. And where did I say there should be lots of disabled spaces 'on principle'?

@midnightstar66

All our supermarkets have a huge amount of disabled bays and rarely are any of them used. I've never seen them even half full let alone full not even at the busiest times so I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

Do you have a blue badge? People tend to notice the things that affect them the most. Before having a disability, I wouldn’t have noted a car park’s accessibility in the same way I do now. Everywhere I go, it needs to be considered. Some places are really, really hard to get a BB space.

I am lucky that out local supermarket (Asda) doesn’t have a lot more blue badge spaces than are ever needed, even at Christmas I can generally get one amazingly!

It’s certainly the exception though and most places can be awful to try to get a space

@melj1213

OP making enquiries to ascertain if businesses meet their legal duties is not unreasonable. It may be that, in legal terms, there’s still adequate provision of parking. It’s ok to ask and to politely and respectfully challenge

As long as businesses provide accessible parking they are following the law. There is no number put on that as a legal minimum (unless someone has knowledge of current legislation that states otherwise) though advice is that 5% of spaces should be accessible spaces.

The company is still providing accessible spaces for BB holders therefore they are not doing anything wrong legally.

@melj1213

Actually, given that neither of us have seen the car park, we cannot say that restricting these spaces is lawful or unlawful. OP did see the car park. Therefore, she is within her rights to make an enquiry. I am not saying she barges in and threatens, I am simply saying it’s ok to politely and respectfully ask the question.

It would be up to a court to decide if the provision of accessible spaces meets the requirements, not that I am aware of any specific case law in this very narrow area.

Or point out that repurposing spaces close to the store makes things even harder for us.

It is a temporary measure and in this store there are still BB spaces available, less of them but still more than enough for the demand at the moment.

If the OP had said "My store usually has 20 BB spaces which are regularly 90% full and now 10 have been taken over as a C&C point I am finding it harder to shop, AIBU?" I would wholeheartedly agree that they WNBU as clearly the spaces were needed. But nowhere does the OP say the issue is that there are no longer enough spaces for the demand, just that they object to the spaces being used because they are BB spaces, regardless of the fact that they are not being used.

It would be up to a court to decide if the provision of accessible spaces meets the requirements, not that I am aware of any specific case law in this very narrow area.

As long as a company provides accessible parking they are acting lawfully. That is the legislation under the Equality Act. There are recommendations from the BSI etc as to the minimum suggested quota of BB spaces to general spaces in a car park but there is no official legislation that specifies anything beyond provision being made for some form of accessible spaces being available.

The OP states that the provision has been reduced temporarily not removed completely, therefore the store is acting lawfully as they are still providing BB spaces as per the requirements of the Equality Act.

@melj1213

It would be up to a court to decide if the provision of accessible spaces meets the requirements, not that I am aware of any specific case law in this very narrow area.

As long as a company provides accessible parking they are acting lawfully. That is the legislation under the Equality Act. There are recommendations from the BSI etc as to the minimum suggested quota of BB spaces to general spaces in a car park but there is no official legislation that specifies anything beyond provision being made for some form of accessible spaces being available.

The OP states that the provision has been reduced temporarily not removed completely, therefore the store is acting lawfully as they are still providing BB spaces as per the requirements of the Equality Act.

I, respectfully, disagree with your view. While there is no legal minimum number of spaces, it could actually be challenged under ‘reasonable adjustments’. This is very specifically terminology. I have seen similar cases, albeit not directly about parking.

it could actually be challenged under ‘reasonable adjustments’

How? I am genuinely interested as the OP says there are other BB spaces still available that are not oversubscribed (or I am sure the OP would have mentioned that fact), the move is a temporary measure due to a global pandemic and the decision will have been made based on logistical, legal and H&S needs.

The store still has reasonable adjustments for BB holders as there is still provision for them to park. As there is no legal minimum number of spaces that must be provided how can it be challenged that reasonable adjustments have not been made when there is still provision, it has just been temporarily reduced?

@FreakStar

In my experience disabled bays are over provided anyway- whenever a carpark is busy, the disabled bays are always the ones empty.

That's my anecdotal experience as well. But I wonder if it is a demographic thing? I find it hard to think the op is nbu but I live in a area with lots of young families. If I lived in an area with an older demographic it might be different. Not that I think only the elderly are disabled (I have an autistic child, who on a disgusting disabled parking thread a few weeks ago, shouldn't be allowed a blue badge according to some posters because he is not 'visibly' disabled ) just that a higher number of blue badge holders may live in areas that elderly people prefer to live in. Isn't it the size of the facility that determines the quota of disabled bays? I seem to remember my late husband telling me that it was a % of the available parking that was required to be for blue badge holders only.

I, respectfully, disagree with your view. While there is no legal minimum number of spaces, it could actually be challenged under ‘reasonable adjustments’. This is very specifically terminology. I have seen similar cases, albeit not directly about parking.

Bear in mind it was "reasonable adjustments" that meant that bus drivers don't have to ensure wheelchair spaces aren't abused by other passengers. So one persons "reasonable" may be another persons "total cop out".

Also who has the time, money, will and physic strength to go to court to get a ruling ? Especially as even if you win, you'll be well out of pocket.

I would guess a lot of disabled people will be shielding, so they may have done random daily checks and noticed the majority of the disabled spots were not being utilised. The disabled get first options on delivery, and they are currently still all booked up every week, so also assume most disabled people are getting their shopping delivered.

The disabled get first options on delivery

Sorry, but bollocks. We gave up trying to get onto Sainsburys priority list (which they offloaded onto the government) after 4 weeks of trying (and therefore 4 weeks of having to visit in store).

We'll leave the fact that it had to be done on the phone (so a big fuck you to anyone with speech or hearing problems) and not any other way for another time.

Our local Asda has also set up the click and collect in a row of disabled spaces, but in fairness every time I’ve been with my parents who have a blue badge, there has been plenty of other disabled spaces available, so can’t see a problem. I realise this may not be the case everywhere.

The disabled get first options on delivery

No, those who are shielding and have had their details shared with the supermarkets do. Again, not everyone who is shielding is disabled

YABU.

They are not using all the spaces just some of them and they are a better judge of how these spaces are utilised than you are.

Whilst disabled parking spaces are a requirement there are no set amount required. (Is my understanding)

You need a hobby.

I would guess a lot of disabled people will be shielding,
Guess agsin!
A huge number of disabled people are not shielding because thier disability has nothing to do with thier immune system nor thier respiratory system.
Many disabled people have been working throughout this year. Why should it be ok for others to go out and about but not for them? Why cant they get shopping on the way home from work same as anyone else?

The disabled get first options on delivery,
No vulnerable people get priority.
Why does everyone think being disabled means you need to shield?

It's weird isn't it @Willow2017. It makes sense that some are, just like any other segment of the population. I do think many people seem to think of BB holders as all being the same, when there's a huge breadth of people who are eligible, for a variety of ailments.