AIBU to feel confused and old about transgender issues.

[confusedandold]

I was born in 1976 so 43 years old. During school, I don't recall any children in my school having issues with their gender. There may have been some but none that I was away of. I had no experience of transgender people apart from a vague memory of seeing a man in women clothing walking up the road and being fascinated by it.

Transgender issues have never been at the forefront of my mind. I feel that I'm very accepting of other people's life choices and that people have a right to be happy in their lives whatever that means for them.

Lately, I feel completely confused by transgender issues. It has never been something that I'd given much thought to but I get completely an utterly confused by the terminology. Non-binary, cisgender etc this is all wording that I had never encountered before. Everyone seems to be talking about trans right and gender issues and I don't understand where this has suddenly come from. Is it that more people have issues around their gender? Is it fashionable to be gender-neutral? Is it just that people now feel more comfortable in expressing how they feel inside? Is there greater acceptance? I'm returning to the UK after 10 years abroad and this is a topic that was never really discussed when I left.

I guess I'm asking because I don't want to inadvertently offend anyone by using incorrect terminology. As shocking as this may sound but when I was at school mixed-race people were referred to as 'half-caste', even mixed-race people in my school referred to themselves in this way, now this is a huge no-no. Times change, language changes and it is so easy to offend while having no intention whatsoever of doing so.

Quite a few women do not feel comfortable getting changed in front of a man. That isn’t some sort of ridiculously prudish state of being. And yet somehow the man (transitioned or otherwise) and his feelings are more important than those of women.

It isn’t about rampaging men flinging themselves at women. It’s simply about dignity and comfort.

98% of all sexual assualts are carried out by men

women are more likely to be attacked in mixed sex toilets and changing areas

the vast vast vast majority of adults do not abuse children yet we have safeguarding in place and DBS checks to keep children safe.

my husband is lovely and kind and not going to attack random women - that doesnt mean he should just be able to wonder freely into womens toilets showers, changing rooms, prisons, refuges and other spaces

do we really have to keep pointing this out??

@pickledmybrain

Quite a few women do not feel comfortable getting changed in front of a man. That isn’t some sort of ridiculously prudish state of being. And yet somehow the man (transitioned or otherwise) and his feelings are more important than those of women.

It isn’t about rampaging men flinging themselves at women. It’s simply about dignity and comfort.

Absolutely.

kit19 apparently so!

@Kit19 can I see your source about women being more likely to be attacked in a mixed gender space? And can it be from a neutral source please.

@Pertella the fact that existing safeguards might not be 100% perfect is not a reason to do away with them altogether.

I'm trying to find stats about transition - I've definitely seen them but can't find the source right now.
In doing so Icame across this, which very neatly illustrates other forces that could be impacting a rise in transition

www.google.com/amp/s/www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/sex-reassignment-surgery-market/amp

in prisons women are more likely to be assaulted by other women than a trans woman
WooleyJ123 are you prepared to apologise for this transphobic statement? You're saying that TW aren't women and that there is some differentiation between TW and "other women". This is the sort of thing that activists are up in arms about.

There's also the question of employment rights as well.

Who is going to employ a woman who is just going to start popping babies out left right and centre and leaving you to deal with things like maternity cover, pay, leave, flexible working and so on when you can just employ a male bodied woman instead and still get to tick the inclusion box

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2020-02-24/debates/D9459D1B-FADF-4765-AB3F-F55D4B322060/ChangingAndToiletFacilitiesInPublicBuildings

Of course women in women’s prisons are more likely to be assaulted by a woman.

If I went to Spain I’d be more likely to be assaulted by a Spanish man. It doesn’t suddenly mean the British ones are all passive sorts. Use your brains, people

Lots of places have made their toilets unisex as a result of pressure from activists. This unequivocally puts more women in danger as they’re being forced to share the facilities with men.

I'm older than you OP and I've known about trans people since I was a child/early teen. Maybe successful gender reassignment surgery was just becoming common in the 1970s and was so old hat and 'sorted' it wasn't reported ten years later?

The tone of the discussion has changed so much in recent years, with a vocal group of 'feminists' claiming that they are at risk from trans women using women's loos (which they've been doing legally for some time) and that schools are hotbeds of brainwashed teachers desperate to encourage their prepubescent girls to transition. Mumsnet's FWR board is full of people who say they are not transphobic but are totally obsessed with the 'danger' posed by the very small group of trans women.

Try reading the AMA referenced above and you'll see some really odd behaviour from a small group of FWR regulars.

@bishopgiggles

in prisons women are more likely to be assaulted by other women than a trans woman WooleyJ123 are you prepared to apologise for this transphobic statement? You're saying that TW aren't women and that there is some differentiation between TW and "other women". This is the sort of thing that activists are up in arms about.

Tut tut wooley.

Luckily on here you are highly unlikely to be told to choke on a sick for such blatant transphobia.

It’s also undone the work of years of campaigning for extra toilets for women at venues.

To reduce queues.

Zarking

We are not concerned with the "danger" posed by transwomen, we are concerned with the danger posed by men who can feign a trans identity to access vulnerable women and girls.

Many actual trans people share those same concerns and are not pleased with their health issues and mental struggles being coopted by predators and abusers either. Are they obsessed and transphobic too?

OP, you wiill also find that women are asked to defend ourselves as to why we don't want males in our spaces or delivering intimate care to elderly female relatives, why schools shouldn't teach gender ideology as fact, or why children shouldn't be prescribed off label drugs and placed on an irreverible surgical pathway.

It's a well rehearsed tactic, and it's always women having to explain why we are saying no to men. PP (who I quoted earlier) put it eloquantly. But I'd like those advocates of self ID who regulrly put women under the spotliggt to explain themseĺves for a change!

Why should males access female spaces? What benefits does this bring to women and girls?

Why aren't people campaigning for third spaces?

Why should girls compete against boys in sport and why should they share changing spaces and toilets with boys?

There are lots of other questions and I hope I'm asking much more reasonable questions in a calm way, which is a civility not often afforded to those of us who are gender critical.

I've yet to hear a plausable answer.

Apologies for typos!

I have never met a trans person in all of my 43 years

How would you know? Trans people don't wear an "I'm trans" badge and it's not necessarily apparent.

The first person I knew to be trans was indistinguishable from someone born biologically female in appearance apart from having hands that were somewhat larger than those of the average woman.

I get muddled by it all tbh too. I believe that no one should be so depressed by feeling they are the wrong gender that they are suicidal and bullied but at the same time I think that biology is what makes me a woman not what I wear. Also we condone blacking up but not dressing up in ridiculously female clothes and claiming I am something I am not ....could I just feel a different ethnicity - I don't know. Grew up in 70s very much a Tom boy with short hair and I was just me there was no pink or girls games etc. I can imagine today I might be told I was the wrong gender...whereas I am just my type of woman. But I have never felt offended by trans and have a trans friend who I love

Do you really think that a man would attack you in a public changing room or bathroom?
Yes I do. Because I have been. It's not paranoia on my part, but I have to discount my own feelings and "lived experience" as others are more important. Welcome to womanhood.

I'm a few years older than you and pretty open to all the new terminology, however I can see that spending the last decade in a middle eastern country would have affected the information you have been exposed to. I also haven't met a trans person (as far as I'm aware anyway), but I'm aware of quite a few - friends of friends etc. You don't have to be an expert in gender terminology, just teach your son to respect other people's identity, and model the same behaviour to him so that it becomes second nature. However someone identifies, they're just another person when it comes to it.

I'm 48 and was in the dark about this until a couple of years ago, OP.

I think that a lot of people who have never read much about gender issues think of (m to f) trans people as men who just quietly want to wear sensible ladies'clothes and hope people don't notice they are men.

Then they realise that there are also some men who either a) think they literally and legally are women even though they have no desire to change their body or appearance and still look like a big bearded builder or b) think that fetishising periods and silky underwear makes them a woman, even though they are still very proud to have a penis, which they very much want to be able to brandish in women's spaces.

And so it suddenly becomes painfully obvious that it's a bit more complicated than 'being kind to people who feel that they've been born in the wrong body'.

Oh, and regarding the Feminism board on here (sometimes referred to as FWR) these stats are two years old, but fairly impressive:

Number of people entering the MN site via the Feminist Chat topic:

June 2016: 15,000
June 2018: 177,000

Wow! Obviously, not everybody is gender critical, but it is a myth that there are a small number of GC Mnetters. If this were true, then the likes of Islan mentioned upthread would not be so obsessed with the board!