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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel confused and old about transgender issues.

539 replies

confusedandold · 24/07/2020 08:29

I was born in 1976 so 43 years old. During school, I don't recall any children in my school having issues with their gender. There may have been some but none that I was away of. I had no experience of transgender people apart from a vague memory of seeing a man in women clothing walking up the road and being fascinated by it.

Transgender issues have never been at the forefront of my mind. I feel that I'm very accepting of other people's life choices and that people have a right to be happy in their lives whatever that means for them.

Lately, I feel completely confused by transgender issues. It has never been something that I'd given much thought to but I get completely an utterly confused by the terminology. Non-binary, cisgender etc this is all wording that I had never encountered before. Everyone seems to be talking about trans right and gender issues and I don't understand where this has suddenly come from. Is it that more people have issues around their gender? Is it fashionable to be gender-neutral? Is it just that people now feel more comfortable in expressing how they feel inside? Is there greater acceptance? I'm returning to the UK after 10 years abroad and this is a topic that was never really discussed when I left.

I guess I'm asking because I don't want to inadvertently offend anyone by using incorrect terminology. As shocking as this may sound but when I was at school mixed-race people were referred to as 'half-caste', even mixed-race people in my school referred to themselves in this way, now this is a huge no-no. Times change, language changes and it is so easy to offend while having no intention whatsoever of doing so.

OP posts:
ACNH · 26/07/2020 11:59

@OldCrone I’m talking about all gender bias

Helmetbymidnight · 26/07/2020 12:00

Just because I’m happy to be categorised by my sex and gender, it’s not an issue for me

do you think most women are happy to be categorised by gender stereotypes then?

OldCrone · 26/07/2020 12:00

Other people are able to put their prejudice into them as other people have disclosure of if they are female / male.

So sexism is OK for other people, but you think you've identified your way out of it?

Why are you doing this instead of fighting against sexism on behalf of everyone who suffers its effects? Including women who suffer from being viewed as inferior and men who hate toxic masculinity?

ThatsHowWeRowl · 26/07/2020 12:02

Just because I’m happy to be categorised by my sex and gender, it’s not an issue for me.

So you're happy to be categorised according to stereotypes about your sex?!

OldCrone · 26/07/2020 12:05

[quote ACNH]@DianasLasso I’m not non binary. I want everting to be equal between men and women too.

Just because I’m happy to be categorised by my sex and gender, it’s not an issue for me. However I understand that for some people it would be.[/quote]
Just because I’m happy to be categorised by my sex and gender, it’s not an issue for me.

Do you understand the difference between sex and gender?

Sex = biology
Gender = stereotypes

ACNH · 26/07/2020 12:05

@Helmetbymidnight

Just because I’m happy to be categorised by my sex and gender, it’s not an issue for me

do you think most women are happy to be categorised by gender stereotypes then?

Definitely not. But there is difference between feeling like a woman and not feeling like a woman.

I can understand that.

OldCrone · 26/07/2020 12:08

But there is difference between feeling like a woman and not feeling like a woman.

Nobody 'feels like a woman'. You either are a woman or you're not. Woman = adult human female.

Your sex is biological. You can't identify out of it, no matter how much you might want to.

ACNH · 26/07/2020 12:08

@OldCrone yes I understand the difference between sex and gender.

ACNH · 26/07/2020 12:09

@OldCrone - I feel like a woman

ThatsHowWeRowl · 26/07/2020 12:16

I feel like a woman

In what way? I feel like a woman too, but only on the basis that I have a female body which works (or doesn't sometimes!) in a female way.

In what way do you feel like a woman that you think that every other woman (inlcuding males who identify as women of we are to follow the ideology) also feels?

I'm not being goady by the way, I am genuinely interested in these discussions.

Pertella · 26/07/2020 12:17

[quote ACNH]@OldCrone - I feel like a woman[/quote]
How do you know what "woman" feels like?

If woman was a feeling, then anyone of any sex can claim to have that feeling which is precisely the issue!

I suspect what you mean is that you are comfortable with your sexed body.

ACNH · 26/07/2020 12:42

@ThatsHowWeRowl

I feel like a woman

In what way? I feel like a woman too, but only on the basis that I have a female body which works (or doesn't sometimes!) in a female way.

In what way do you feel like a woman that you think that every other woman (inlcuding males who identify as women of we are to follow the ideology) also feels?

I'm not being goady by the way, I am genuinely interested in these discussions.

I’m SO interested in these discussions, if you have any reading materials you can recommend to me that would be great.
ACNH · 26/07/2020 12:44

@Pertella you assume that is the case.

Datun · 26/07/2020 12:44

What I mean is that you don’t know if I have XX or XY chromosomes therefore you are not bias in your response to me.

This is why people who say they are non-binary are very close to gender criticism, but not quite.

Being non-binary is avoiding sexism. Being a gender critical is challenging it.

Being non binary perpetuates gender stereotypes by not addressing them.

Everyone knows they are there. But gc feminists try and get laws changed to restrict them. They try and educate people, particularly children into identifying sexism, understanding it, and rejecting it.

Not avoiding it.

Pertella · 26/07/2020 12:46

[quote ACNH]@Pertella you assume that is the case.[/quote]
Which bit?

ACNH · 26/07/2020 12:47

@Datun I’m sure being GC and NB are not mutually exclusive.

ACNH · 26/07/2020 12:50

Where you assume what I mean.

Datun · 26/07/2020 12:58

[quote ACNH]@Datun I’m sure being GC and NB are not mutually exclusive.[/quote]
They kind of are tho.

As an ideology.

You cant be advocating for the avoidance and ignoring of gender stereotypes whilst simultaneously pointing them out, challenging them and trying to restrict them.

ACNH · 26/07/2020 13:04

@datun really? So you can only be critical of inequalities of something that you identify as being?

Datun · 26/07/2020 13:19

[quote ACNH]@datun really? So you can only be critical of inequalities of something that you identify as being?[/quote]
Sorry, I'm not quite sure what that means.

Both sets of people can, of course, be critical of gender stereotypes.

But, it would appear that being non-binary is an internal identity. Not a political movement to challenge gender stereotypes.

ACNH · 26/07/2020 13:26

@Datun yes I don’t think anyone has said it’s a political movement.

DickKerrLadies · 26/07/2020 13:26

Yes, I don't 'identify' as GC - I am critical of gender therefore I am gender critical.

I don't think I know anyone who is critical of gender who doesn't fall under any definition of NB that I can find/have been told. The differing point is that one group wants to identify themselves out of the boxes and one group says that the boxes are bullshit and none of us should be put in them.

Datun · 26/07/2020 13:29

Exactly. Claiming that if someone doesn't know your sex, they can't be sexist towards you, is sidestepping the issue of sexism.

Gender critical feminists highlight it.

Which is why they not the same.

midgebabe · 26/07/2020 13:29

Here we go again...someone claiming that women is beyond simple reproductive biological reality

And as soon as they do that , they are kicking in the guts any female who has grown through gender dysmorphia, to accept their female body and reject that idea that they should therefore feel /be/act a certain way as a result . They are kicking in the guts females who think that there is nothing wrong in not conforming

, I hope over time you can learn to be kinder and more sympathetic to others

ListeningQuietly · 26/07/2020 13:31

So am I right in thinking that the non binary people regard the rest of us as some sort of 1950's stereotype male and female ?

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