AIBU to feel confused and old about transgender issues.

[confusedandold]

I was born in 1976 so 43 years old. During school, I don't recall any children in my school having issues with their gender. There may have been some but none that I was away of. I had no experience of transgender people apart from a vague memory of seeing a man in women clothing walking up the road and being fascinated by it.

Transgender issues have never been at the forefront of my mind. I feel that I'm very accepting of other people's life choices and that people have a right to be happy in their lives whatever that means for them.

Lately, I feel completely confused by transgender issues. It has never been something that I'd given much thought to but I get completely an utterly confused by the terminology. Non-binary, cisgender etc this is all wording that I had never encountered before. Everyone seems to be talking about trans right and gender issues and I don't understand where this has suddenly come from. Is it that more people have issues around their gender? Is it fashionable to be gender-neutral? Is it just that people now feel more comfortable in expressing how they feel inside? Is there greater acceptance? I'm returning to the UK after 10 years abroad and this is a topic that was never really discussed when I left.

I guess I'm asking because I don't want to inadvertently offend anyone by using incorrect terminology. As shocking as this may sound but when I was at school mixed-race people were referred to as 'half-caste', even mixed-race people in my school referred to themselves in this way, now this is a huge no-no. Times change, language changes and it is so easy to offend while having no intention whatsoever of doing so.

Someone's crunched the numbers from the Prison service. 60% of transgender people in jail have been convicted for sexual offences, but the offending rate in the general male prison population for this type of crime is 19%. BBC fact checked and confirmed it was true.

At least 2 biologically male rapists housed in women's prisons have gone on to sexually assault prisoners. The former prisons minister admitted a biologically male prisoner in a female prison had assaulted a female prison officer.

I’m the same age as you OP and agree it was never something that really came up or got discussed when we were growing up. There might have been talk around gay or lesbian or transvestite when I was a teen but that’s about it.

It’s only something that has recently come into my sphere through forums such as this one (I had to google the terms too!) and through the fact my teens are constantly exposed to the info dump at school about it. With the consequence that over 50% of her friends are now transgender!

so binary people are people who identify with all the socially constructed stereotypes of their sex?

Nope.

Other people are able to put their prejudice into them as other people have disclosure of if they are female / male.

so binary people are people who identify with all the socially constructed stereotypes of their sex?

Yep. Apparently if you don't identify as non-binary, you are one of those awful 'cis' people who identifies with all the ridiculous stereotypes society has placed on your sex.

So for me non binary is ‘does not wish to be identified by male or female’

I think of the XX XY as blood type - we all have our own blood type - but we don’t disclose it - however if we did there is no stereotype bias by others knowing we our blood type - some people don’t know their blood type and is has had no detrimental effect to their lives. So being non binary and not disclosing chromosome type does not deny any part of our being the same as not disclosing our bloody type.

ACNH that's an interesting perspective - are you saying the main feeling behind being NB is the desire to hide whether your body is male or female? (Or hide whether you identify as masculine or feminine)?

I think of the XX XY as blood type - we all have our own blood type - but we don’t disclose it
Yes. Except you can't identify someones blood type from external visible features. You can with sex. So although you may wish to keep whether you are xx or XY private, the reality is that it's very hard for most people to be able to do that

So for me non binary is ‘does not wish to be identified by male or female’

You cant identify out of being male or female.

So being non binary and not disclosing chromosome type does not deny any part of our being the same as not disclosing our bloody type.

But you must be aware that sometimes your sex is important and other people need to know what sex you are. For example if you need medical treatment the doctors treating you need to know whether you are male or female.

Travis Alabanza is 'non-binary' which apparently seems to mean that Travis is a male who has an eccentric dress sense and sometimes likes to use the female changing rooms in Topshop.

When non-binary people have sex, do none of them have to worry about contraception?

So for me non binary is ‘does not wish to be identified by male or female’

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean you don't want people to make assumptions about you based on sexist stereotypes? And you think that denial that you have a sex will stop them from doing this? Or do you mean something else?

Nope. Other people are able to put their prejudice into them as other people have disclosure of if they are female / male.

this doesnt make sense.

ok, so non binary for a biological woman means:

'i AM a woman - obviously - but im different to other women because i dont like stereotypically womany things like the binary crowd'?

@Helmetbymidnight

Nope. Other people are able to put their prejudice into them as other people have disclosure of if they are female / male.

this doesnt make sense.

What I mean is that you don’t know if I have XX or XY chromosomes therefore you are not bias in your response to me.

@QuentinWinters

I think of the XX XY as blood type - we all have our own blood type - but we don’t disclose it Yes. Except you can't identify someones blood type from external visible features. You can with sex. So although you may wish to keep whether you are xx or XY private, the reality is that it's very hard for most people to be able to do that

You can’t always and why should we?

Exactly Helmetbymidnight
The “enby” seems to say that not all the stereotypes apply to the “enby” but do apply to the “cis” people.
Over on the feminist boards “cis” is considered offensive.
But the feminists know nothing about fighting stereotypes so they got called “boomer Karens” yesterday by someone who thought they were phobic.

how would i know yours less than anyone else's?

so- people decide to be non binary because they want to stop people thinking in terms of gender stereotypes about them?

But with the vast majority of non binary people I have come across, you can easily tell if they are XX or XY?

Sam Smith for example, it's hardly a headscratcher is it? Even if he hadn't come out after making his millions as a male artist becoming famous? He doesn't hide his maleness does he? He just thinks that because he likes wearing eyeliner, watching chick flicks and wearing a Cuban heel, but also enjoys football, that he is non-binary?

But even other non binary people, you can tell they are male or female almost always?

@ACNH

Nope.

Other people are able to put their prejudice into them as other people have disclosure of if they are female / male.

But this is such a council of despair.

Basically you and I agree that projecting a set of prejudices (about dress, behaviour, intelligence, rationality, suitable jobs, what sexual behaviour we should have to put up with) onto people because of their sex is wrong.

My solution is to tell people to stop projecting their prejudices. Their sex-based prejudices are wrong.

Yours seems to be to try to construct an identity outside of your sex which will enable you to disguise yourself in such a way that they no longer project their prejudices onto you personally.

As a woman who's been subject to a lot of sexism over the years, it's very hard for me to read that without hearing an additional "and bugger the rest of the female sex - they're happy to wallow in their oppression."

Well, I'm not. I don't much want people to project their sexist prejudices onto me either, thank you very much. And I would like to be free from those prejudices without having to deny my biological sex. (And I've had plenty of that - from being groped by grown men when I was 15 through struggles to get taken seriously as a woman in STEM right through to having to fight an equal pay claim.)

What I mean is that you don’t know if I have XX or XY chromosomes therefore you are not bias in your response to me.

This is true on an internet forum. I can't know whether anyone I'm talking to is male or female, regardless of what they say about themselves, but someone's sex doesn't normally affect how I speak to them in a discussion, so that doesn't matter.

But in real life it's a different matter. It is quite clear to most of us whether any adult we see is male or female, no matter how they're dressed.

So for example, I wouldn't be happy to see someone like Travis Albanza in a women's toilet or changing room, but men should be OK with Travis in the men's. Is that what you mean by 'bias in your response to me'? That other people would be biased about whether or not you should be in a particular single-sex space?

Yes it's odd to me that some people think that the way to stop stereotypes about males and females is to just pretend you are neither, hiding your sex completely, but allow those stereotypes to still perpetuate. Rather than trying to actually change societies stereotypical views about males and females?

People like John MacClean and Billy Porter would do far more to break down stereotypes about masculinity than Sam Smith for example.

@DianasLasso I’m not non binary. I want everting to be equal between men and women too.

Just because I’m happy to be categorised by my sex and gender, it’s not an issue for me. However I understand that for some people it would be.