Insulted key worker wage rises don't include nurses

[nowayhose]

Just what it says really, I'm insulted that police/ fire service/ paramedics are all getting a descent wage rise as recognition for their above and beyond efforts during Cornavirus pandemic, but nurses get bugger all as they're still in the process of getting the 3 year gradual wage increase. (even after this 3 year incremental wage increase, nurses pay will be well below what the other emergency services get)

Why are nurses acting like they had no idea what the job entails or how much they're paid and it's some sort of unpleasant surprise? hmm.

Yeah, what did people think would happen once they got their pin and started working, an extra £10k per annum or something confused. I agree that HCAs and carers are underpaid though.

Amazingly perhaps they believe that if they have been at the top of their band for 20+ years that their wage should increase at least on par with inflation and not below.

@Myothercarisalsoshit see my most recent post.

I agree @BBCONEANDTWO. I don't think anyone is against making the working life of a nurse better by actual action and initiatives to make real change that actually has a positive impact. But the posts around no pay rise for covid is a bit unfair, as the ones for teachers etc were part of the annual pay review pre covid, and re branding them is actually just an excuse to get away with not paying the uplift for a few months (supposed to take affect April for some at least, but hasn't happened yet)- and the foot stomping and trying to prove who has had it harder throughout all of this is just divisive.

@Staplemaple

Why are nurses acting like they had no idea what the job entails or how much they're paid and it's some sort of unpleasant surprise? hmm.

Yeah, what did people think would happen once they got their pin and started working, an extra £10k per annum or something . I agree that HCAs and carers are underpaid though.

We know when we start nursing that the pay is shit. What you don’t fully realise until you start doing it is that everything else can often be shit.

Patients hate you*
Families hate you*
Management hate you
Senior management hate you
The press really hate you
The government really, really hate you

Being a nurse or a healthcare support worker or a private carer is an absolute privilege. It’s the best job in the world and the worst job in the world, often within the same hour. Doesn’t mean we should be treated like shit.

At the start of this crisis I was heartened by the realisation from so many that the lowest paid in our society actually are the ones keeping things going. Like many of us, private carers, teachers, police, retail workers, lorry drivers etc, I hoped this was the start of a shift in society to a kinder, more accepting world. I couldn’t have been more ridiculously idealistic.

• not all. Some patients and families are incredible.

Amazingly perhaps they believe that if they have been at the top of their band for 20+ years that their wage should increase at least on par with inflation and not below.

This is often the case with public sector jobs. Not that it's right, but even spanning back, it's not a surprise. In the context of everything going on and people being plunged into poverty, it is annoying hearing about people being paid an okay wage in a secure job complaining. There needs to be fundamental changes to it, yes, but read the room.

@CaptainSensiblesRedBeret yes but a few extra £s won't change that, I absolutely agree there should be initiatives etc in place to reduce the stress and workload, and ensure that nurses are able to actually do the job they trained to do and are amazing at rather than deal with the other crap and burn out.

@Newwayofthinking

Police seem to have had pay rises every year for the last three years?

2.5% in 2020
www.gov.uk/government/news/police-to-receive-25-pay-increase

2.5% in 2019
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49068628

2% in 2018
www.gov.uk/government/news/police-to-receive-2-pay-increase-in-2018-19

2% in 2017
www.gov.uk/government/news/home-office-sets-out-police-pay-award-for-2017-to-2018

Obviously the deserve each pay rise, which I guess is more of a pay cut when it doesn't keep up with inflation.

@Staplemaple Yep. And if this wasn't a long-term poster i'd be suspicious because there's an awful lot of nurses complaining about having it harder than anyone else threads which always piss people off who earn less/have lost their jobs/work in jobs with poorer Ts and Cs/work in other public sector jobs and work just as hard etc.

Only a couple of weeks after many 'AIBU to still jump the queue at Tesco as a nurse' threads which came after all the 'i'm a nurse and our wards are empty and we have nothing to do threads'.

All very divisive.

@Captainsensibleredberet.

We know when we start nursing that the pay is shit. What you don’t fully realise until you start doing it is that everything else can often be shit.

Patients hate you*
Families hate you*
Management hate you
Senior management hate you
The press really hate you
The government really, really hate you

On a daily basis how does the press and government affect you doing your job though? I think that Senior Management are the key to making nursing staff's job so much better.

Regarding patients/families - I do think that they sometimes expect so much (just some) and take it out on the nurses because they find it easier. Senior Management need to stick up for their staff.

There are however some nurses who just shouldn't be nurses IMO. Most are hard working, compassionate and will do their very best. It only takes a couple of 'bad apples' to spoil it and also only one bully on the ward who makes life difficult - but that is a management problem to deal with.

Unfortunately many jobs are like this. It's not as if the NHS is making a profit that it can give pay rises if they've done well during the year. For the big bucks nurses would probably need to go and work abroad.

Nursing currently is not an attractive prospect for many potential students, which is shown by the lack of qualified nurses. This is going to get worse as so many members of the workforce are nearing retirement.

I would suggest that situation is going to change dramatically over the next couple of years as the private sector suffers a severe recession and millions of people lose their jobs.

Public sector jobs with their good pensions are going to look like a very, very attractive option.

The problem with nursing is that it’s predominantly female, there are too many of us and we are expected to do it as a vocation. I once worked in a hospice where the chief exec ( on nearly 200 k a year) said we should be privileged to work with the dying (which I agree with) and basically work for free.

Other emergency services are typical male roles and fit the brave life saving hero rhetoric better. Agree with PP about govt trying to divide and conquer.

@CaptainSensiblesRedBeret

I'm genuinely sorry if that's how you feel and that's been your experience. All nurses have had their fair share of shit and abuse and violence but i've never felt all the hate you describe. Not at all. Odd patient or family member maybe but not nearly enough to say most or even many. And I have never felt that management, senior management, the press, the government or society hate me either.

Maybe it's where you work?

@AgeLikeWine - the problem is not the number of student nurses we are training, it’s the numbers leaving the profession and the fall out from brexit and massive drop in the number of European nurses working in the UK. We are at full capacity with regards to training as there are not enough placement areas to cope with demand. We are still tied to EU legislation regarding the number of clinical hours students need to do and there is simply not enough capacity to support it.

To all the nurses on here.
I’m sorry. You deserve so much better.

I think there is a lack of understanding about what a pay rise is. If it is at the rate of inflation it is a pay-stay-the-same. If it is below inflation it is a pay-cut-but-less-than-without. If it is above inflation it is a pay-rise-of-the-amount-above-inflation-not-the-whole-amount.

This is really basic maths. Maybe we should be discussing maths for adults before we discuss pay rises? The idea that it would be worse on private side is not only not totally true but also a misnomer, it's not a race to the bottom, it's a race to what is right.

@AgeLikeWine It doesn't necessarily need a dramatic change. My BF is a MM in recruitment and there are trained nurses from abroad (often from poor countries) queuing up to come over here. She has an amazing extremely well paid job travelling all over the world (yes I am envious!) but she's worth every penny to the NHS as has saved their trust hundreds of thousands of pounds in agency staff by recruiting substantive staff from abroad.

Obviously that's all been on hold due to CV but will start again at some point.

@Sisterwives - depleting impoverished countries of their nursing workforce is an ethical dilemma for me. One English trust a few years ago went overseas and basically recruited the country’s entire ITU workforce. But at the same time, people have a right to use their skills to better their lives. I couldn’t sleep at night doing your BF’s job but appreciate it’s a tricky situation.

@Doggybiccys

The problem with nursing is that it’s predominantly female, there are too many of us and we are expected to do it as a vocation. I once worked in a hospice where the chief exec ( on nearly 200 k a year) said we should be privileged to work with the dying (which I agree with) and basically work for free.

Other emergency services are typical male roles and fit the brave life saving hero rhetoric better. Agree with PP about govt trying to divide and conquer.

This enrages me - all the ones at the top on that sort of money - if they cared they would do it for free as well if that's what the Chief Exec thought.

Too many at the top aren't in the real world.

lifeafter I don't work on Covid wards but I've never been as busy these last few months. Maybe it was seeing patients with no ppe that rendered me antibody positive.
Not on Agends for Change either so no pay rise for me.

Can I also just add that it's not just nurses that the pay rise doesn't include. It doesn't include:

Health Care Assistants
Clinical Support Workers
Phlebotomists
Paramedics
Midwives
Maternity Support Workers
Health Vistors
Porters
Cleaners
Security Staff
Housekeepers
Ward Clerks
Medical Secretaries
Receptionists
Diagnostic Radiographers
Therapeutic Radiographers
Dieticians
Physiotherapists
Occupational Therapists
Speech and Language Therapists
Operating Department Practitioners
Pharmacists
Pharmacy Technicians
Pharmacy Assistants
Junior Doctors
Etc etc.

It's not just nurses, it's pretty much the majority of NHS staff, who have all played some part in keeping things going recently.

No mention of the years and years of pay freeze in all this 2% talk, is there? or of the fact that this is senior civil servants only - it doesn't apply to the vast majority of civil servants.

I do think public sector employees get paid fairly well though and the reason they’re seen as ‘poorly paid’ is because they are mostly occupied by the middle class who don’t really understand what a bad wage is. And because, in practical terms, you are now expected to have a degree for even admin jobs. So it may not be poorly paid compared with a kitchen porter, but for the requirements in the job advert, it is.

To be clear, absolutely agree that things should be improved for those in the NHS, they do an incredible job in shitty circumstances. But I don't agree with confluating that with the pay awards for others which have been rebranded as rewards for covid even though they were agreed beforehand, and a wagging contest about who has worked harder. I also don't think that a few quid extra will actually resolve the fundamental problems, and that's the bigger issue- wrongly people know that the pay is pretty shocking, and moaning about not getting a rise when loads are being plunged into poverty is not really fair. It's important though, and people should fight for that, but not pit against one another.

@Doggybiccys Some states in India and a few other countries, there's an agreement in place not to recruit from due to that reason. The NHS researches whats going on in healthcare in the countries they recruit from and they're not all poor/developing either.

I think there is a lack of understanding about what a pay rise is. If it is at the rate of inflation it is a pay-stay-the-same. During my the whole of my working career, the only way I achieved an above-inflation rise was by being promoted. I think the majority of people are in the same position.

The trouble is a big recession and mass unemployment are looming. I wouldn't take it personally, a lot of people are going to suffer much more though through job losses etc. Nursing is probably a very 'safe' career option in that there will always be sick people. I have friends being made redundant and others taking pay cuts.