Update on my DSD situation

[hotstepper4]

I'm not sure how to link to old threads but if you search my user ID I did a thread called "to think about her all the time"

I described how Dh and I haven't seen my dsd11 (12 in August) for a year. She cut him out of her life, after accusing him of abusing her. Recently, she confessed to her dm that this was a lie and that she said it because she didn't like the screen limitations at ours.

This was obviously a massive kick in the teeth as, you'll see from my other thread, I really adored her, and her accusations really affected Dh.

Something happened last night, and I'd like peoples views on it. Early evening, watching tv with Dh and there's a knock at the door. Dh opens it and it's dsd. She comes flying in, throws her arms around him, like nothing ever happened. I gave her a big hug too, we were both very aware of the strangeness of the situation but the last thing I wanted was to make her feel unwelcome.

After around half an hour, she told us that her dm, dh's exw, had no idea that she was even here, that she'd snuck out the back door while her dm was in the toilet. It was then that I realised she didn't have any shoes on! It's a 30 minute walk between our houses, thinking about what could have happened to her feet is 😫

Of course Dh immediately phoned her mum, who had been calling around dsds friends. It hadnt even occurred to her that she would be at our house as she has ignored every text message Dh has sent her in a year, and has strongly resisted contact. She immediately wanted to speak to dsd and I could hear her shouting at her.

Dsd was upset then, so I took her up to ds10s room and the 4 of us played Mario kart which broke the ice, ds was so happy to see dsd and they were laughing their heads off, after dsd was sitting cuddling Dh for a while. Then I suggested I'd walk her home to her mums as her mum had told her she wanted her back at specific time, however dsd asked if Dh could walk her instead which of course I was pleased about.

He got home a while later, and apparently dsd had had an argument with her dm about not cleaning out her fish tank. Her dm said she'd called her an idiot so she had confiscated her phone. This is why she ran away, however on the way home dsd was telling Dh that she doesn't know who she is, that she wants to wear boys clothes but that her mother keeps buying her dresses, and that she wants her hair cut short but her mother won't allow it. Dh suggested that he could see dsd again this coming weekend however she refused, my belief is that she'll go back to ignoring him as soon as her phone is returned to him.

Dh is going to just go back to dropping her the odd text and making sure she knows that we will always accept her for whomever she wants to be.

Is this what anyone would do? Does this behaviour raise any red flags?

Ignore me if this is a stupid idea, but would it be worth your DH approaching childrens' services and telling them himself about the accusation?

I'm just thinking an approach from him might be better than waiting for the next thing to happen, both to protect himself and to kickstart some help for her?

I have read your previous threads. To me, your DSD sounds like a child who has been badly failed by her parents. At this stage I don't think it is helpful to label her behaviour as "manipulative" or to search for psychiatric diagnoses (BPD should never be diagnosed in a child of this age in any case). She would be better served by immediate support, counselling on her own and perhaps with her parents, and a plan agreed between the parents as to how to move forward.

She bore the brunt of her parents' separation, as you said. It is no wonder at all that she is acting out now. Her confusion, insecurity, and rage must be intense. But I very much doubt she could articulate exactly why she behaves as she does or why she feels as she does. Her pain is real. However, the surface explanations (arguing over screen time, etc.) really explain nothing. They are just smokescreens.

Also, the incident of her sudden arrival at your house seems very odd. Didn't you immediately ask her if her mum knew where she was? Why didn't your DH call her mum right away, rather than wait half an hour?

Your DH seems oddly passive in the way he interacts with his child. Sending the occasional text, not insisting on receiving her school report, etc. Her offering of a little collection of gifts is heartbreaking. I really think that your DH and his ex-wife have to step up to the plate and help this child. She's communicating her unhappiness in every way she possibly can and no one is listening.

Why do you keep coming back to 'BPD'/EUPD? 12 year olds cannot be diagnosed with personality disorders.
She has one brother diagnosed ND. Another brother who sounds ND from your descriptions. Everything you've shared on both threads screams that DSD too is ND. Girls are routinely failed in this area.

She really needs to be assessed for Autism/ADHD/etc, by someone who has expertise in diagnosing girls.

Thank you for further posts.

Dh has called her doctor today and they are calling him back tomorrow. We made a list of every concerning behaviour she has and will relay them to the dr.

Dh has also requested to see dsd and her dm on Sunday, though I've told him that even if dsd opts out of the meeting he should meet just him and the mum

and forwarded him her school report to prove it, which to be honest was a glowing report

Which means nothing in context to asd! My dd masks well at school, and if you are not told, you would not think she was autistic.

This is an absolute mess and both of her parents have failed her badly. She is desperate for help, she walked barefoot for 30 minutes. That isn't manipulative, it is a clear cry for help.

Your DH needs to start actually doing something. It is ridiculous that he is so passive. FWIW abused children do sometimes withdraw their claims or say they lied, especially when no one believes them. Not saying your husband did it, just that the posters on here who jump straight to manipulation need to understand that.

She sounds in desperate need of help. Her mother should not be dictating her clothes and hair at her age.

X posted. That is a start at least

She could have thrown her shoes in a hedge just before she arrived at OP's house, Bloom.

Yes, she's a very confused child and yes, her parents have failed her badly. But that doesn't mean she can't also be manipulative.

I've been her, albeit in a slightly different circumstance. Never underestimate what a twelve year old girl is capable of doing to make sure things go her way.

I get that the DP is acting in a way that is extremely frustrating but the posters slating him obviously have no idea what it does to your mental health to be in a situation like this. He is suffering from a form of abuse himself albeit from his DD, who it sounds like is/was being used as a mouthpiece for hostility from the DD's mother. All this "why doesn't he just do xyz?" But his lack of decisive action smacks of the same kind of emotionally downtrodden attitude you see in e.g. women with physically or emotionally abusive partners - on paper there's often no reason why they can't simply just leave but the reality is very different.

I'm not saying he's blameless by any stretch and by emotionally cowering into a ball hoping everything will just get better it's just getting worse, but I think with OP's help he's starting to realise that.

OP keep pushing him into taking decisive action - it's not like he has the worry about contact being withheld. He needs to drop the attitude that taking action isn't worth it unless it means contact resumes - his goal should be doing everything he can with the relevant authorities to get his daughter help (or at least try rather than just assuming they'll only deal with DD's mum). When his daughter grows up she'll be able to see for herself that her dad was someone who did his best to get her the help she needed and is therefore a person to be respected and loved. Because right now he's simply ensuring she'll want nothing to do with him.

It does sound like something deeper is going on with her and she needs some help.

Just remember that not liking 'girly' things doesnt mean she is trans. It is totally fine for a girl to not want to be feminine. I couldn't stand nice dresses, dolls, playing house or any of those other stereotypes about girls, when I was her age.

@MyCatHatesEverybody thank you for that post that is exactly it. He is trying now and I agree he should have tried harder a long time ago but he has always desperately tried to avoid the mum as much as possible, which really isn't helpful to the dc

Still no answers as to why SS weren’t involved, which would have been for the benefit of everyone (including DH).

Honestly, even your last update leaves me cold.

Your DH needs to speak to his ex and say “hey Ex, I know we haven’t conversed for years but I want to talk to you - just you - about DSD following her appearance the other night. I’m worried sick about her, you must agree that some of her behaviour of late has been pretty far out and we need to put heads together to stop her obvious upset and unhappiness escalating. Let’s be responsible parents, put our own issues to one side and properly discuss DSD and what she needs from us, just so we are on the same page. How does Monday week sound?”.

Or something.

It fascinates me how varied the responses are to this (and previous) thread. There seems to be a lot of projection going on in many ways.

FWIW, my child's school only sent a report to dad this end of term. We have shared care but she is with me about 70/30. I sent a message and asked for my copy and it was sent straight out. I don't see why covid stopped your DH getting his report.

As for the behaviour/health issues, maybe focus on what support the child needs rather than finding the right label for her. A child's response to trauma can present very similarly to the types of things that you are wondering about. It might be worth addressing her trauma before seeking a diagnosis.

Would something like this be helpful for you to have a look at? www.acesonlinelearning.com/

As a slight aside could DH suggest that the DSS' and DSD come alternate weekends so that they all benefit from having time apart?

Apologies - when I posted I had missed that this accusation had not been investigated. I had assumed that it had been and been found groundless (or at least "iffy") and she had made her confession after that.

I agree with everyone who says that this should have been reported and properly investigated- for the sake of everyone concerned.

Are you sure there is not a bigger picture of parental alienation occurring? Your DSD having to write your number on the sole of her foot sounds like she was very scared that her mum would find out she had it.
That’s not normal.

It is possible that one child can be alienated when another isn’t.
I have two DSS’s who were alienated from DH and us ten years ago. They are young adults now. DSS2 saw the light after four years of being kept away and we are now very close again (he has lived with us at times).

DSS1 has refused to see or speak to DH for the entirety of the ten years but will still send lovely chatty texts to DH with kisses and emojis, happy Father’s Day etc. Sometimes asks for advice about work etc. He’s 22 years old now. But when around his mum and nan says vile things about DH and calls him all names under the sun (to please them). And point blank refuses to see DH.

Is your DSD’s behaviour about trying to please her mum and seek her approval, perhaps? And when she was told off she felt able to run off to see you, only to be shouted at and brought back into line?

At the time Dh told his ex she could report it if she wanted to. Why would he report himself for something he hadn't done? @FreshEggs I think you are right she desperately wants her mother's approval. Yesterday when she came to ours she was treated well. We both hugged her, she played computer games with ds10 and we made her feel as welcome as possible. It was her mother who shouted down the phone at her and demanded she come back an hour later.

I think the fact that she struggles with her siblings could be a big part of her behaviour. From what you've described, there's reason to suspect all three of them might be ND, and as others have said it's often missed with girls. It sounds like her brothers may be taking up a lot of attention and because she may also be on the same spectrum and struggling with it, her response has been to lash out in the way she has been to get the attention she needs.

Her mum and dad should both be focusing on that element of things if they want to help her and tackle her behaviour.

Why would he report himself for something he hadn't done?

Your DSD disclosed something to you. The correct course of action, for a variety of reasons explained on this thread by several different posters, was for you to report that allegation to social services. You could have given the background, stated that you thought it was false, explained that you had never witnessed anything etc. If you were unwilling or unable to do so, your DH needed to go to SS himself and explain that his DD had made an accusation against him in the interests of full disclosure: partly to protect himself, partly to access help for DD, and partly to show to all of your children that accusations of abuse are serious thus should be taken seriously. Playing dumb by saying “why would he report himself for something he hasn’t done?” is not helpful and makes you come across as unsympathetic in a situation that must be extremely difficult for you. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Has no-one ever explained proper safeguarding procedure to you before?

Has no-one ever explained proper safeguarding procedure to you before?

The answer to this for many, besides those who work in very specific sectors, would be no.

Why is that so hard for everyone to understand?

hotstepper4 I’ve just read your first post about her.

You shouldn’t have chased her and held in to her arm. Then forced her in to your car in the first day of secondary school. I think she wanted to see her mum.

Also when turned up in December and got upset as you hadn’t got her any xmas gifts did you tell her they were at her mums? Why didn’t she already know.

Sitting on your bed crying ‘you know you know about dad hitting me’ should have told you that this child has serious issues. None that any of of you have tried to sort out properly.

I actually feel really sorry for her.

I think the OP maybe should be edited to make it clear that the abuse your DSS accused your DH of was physical (smacking her) rather than sexual. It may change some people's reactions.

It's still abuse, but it's a very different kettle of fish.

@CodexDevinchi you didn't read it properly then. I don't even own a car. I did walk her to her mums.

She had already had her Xmas gift when she came round on December 27th. She just assumed for some reason there would be more gifts for her.

The hitting thing bore no weight as she was telling me I saw something I had never seen and I think I know my own memory. Then later she confessed she had been lying.

I feel sorry for her too. I love her to bits, she's the closest thing to a daughter I'll ever have. But as he stepmother I am severely limited in what I as an individual can actually do. All I can do is tell Dh what I think he should do, however I am also mindful that o can not be on his case about this all the time. He knows she needs help. The issue is getting her mother to agree and work with him on this. He called her doctor today and he said basically there wasn't much they could do and that Dh should make an appointment to see dsds school nurse in September, which he will do.

He sent her a text last night telling her how much he loved seeing her and how she always has an home and an open door here. He is trying.