To feel uncomfortable when friend talks about money?

[Lizzie523]

I have been close friends with a woman for about 10 years. She is probably my closest friend of all. We have never talked about money in our friendship but over the last 6 months or so she frequently raised the topic. We are both in our late 20s and just starting to move towards more well paid jobs.

She decided she deserved a promotion, saying ('well I am only on this but I should get ££' - already way more than me btw and I am decently paid). Last time myself and another friend were with her we felt out of our depth. Both of us spent years travelling and working while she has saved a lot of money and is now thinking about getting a house and a mortgage.

Anyway I saw her the other day and she started talking loudly about money, in public again and I was cringing so much.

AIBU? She comes from a wealth family who puts money above everything but she never did. She votes Labour, says she is a socialist and I suppose going on about her capital was never a subject before. Her parents put a lot of pressure on her to be successful so it might be coming from that.

But what now bothers me is the last few times I've seen her she keeps pushing me to ask for a promotion and more money. Since when did this become such a hot topic? I dont know how to steer away from it but it is bothering me.

How much do you earn, OP?

@user327253

I honestly thought finances being a social taboo was really outdated? I'm cringing a bit at you being horrified she spoke about it 'in public' I would have zero qualms discussing salaries with close friends.

For me, saving for a deposit for a house was a bit all consuming, and I spent hours on Money Saving Expert and trying to work out how I could earn more, so that may be where this is coming from. It doesn't sound like she is being goady because she earns more from what you have said.

.... "I honestly thought finances being a social taboo was really outdated?"

Maybe I am outdated (I'm 64) but I'd find it very crass

For those asking 'why is it vulgar to talk about money all the time' watch this

I want to know how much she earns?

I wouldn't ask a friend how much they earn but sometimes we've got onto the subject and it's no big deal.

It’s not like she’s asking you what you earn or anything.. she sounds alright to me.

I am intrigued by this thread as I don't think I'd enjoy those conversations but it is clear many people would be fine.

I grew up in a family very concerned about money ( was a bit boom and bust) so money to me = stress.

I do talk quite happily about 'worried I won't have enough to afford x' or 'so pleased to have got a payrise' but feel almost allergic to using the actual £ amount.

The friend is only earning £3k more than you so you are about on par rather than her earning loads more than you. I am afraid you lost my support a bit when you made the comment about men getting promoted. If you don't go for them then you won't. That type of comment feeds into that cycle.

The thing is, it doesn’t sound like she’s bragging about what she has. It seems she’s talking openly about her career aspirations and I think it’s telling that you take her assertions that she deserves to earn more than her current salary as a comment on you.

Women tend to very much undervalue themselves in terms of expected earnings, applying for promotion and so on. On top of that we get strong messages that women should do jobs that are beneficial to society, certainly on MN where I’ve seen quite sneering posts directed at those who earn a decent salary doing allegedly “bullshit jobs” with bullshit job basically being anything that isn’t nurse, carer, teacher 🙄.

There’s nothing vulgar about wanting to earn a good salary and have a decent quality of life and I think it’s a good thing for women to have these conversations. I appreciate you may feel she’s being a bit pushy regarding what you should do but if that’s the case you need to tell her so and not just a wishy-washy I’m uncomfortable talking about money.

We are on par just now but she is due a promotion and it is quite a leap in earnings.

What was wrong with my comment about men? It is just a fact.

Look the point is my friend and I aren't comparable. She came from a well off family that taught her conserving money is more important than anything. My parents supported my ambitions in the arts even though it doesnt pay as well and I pursued it knowing full well that would be the case. I am content.

I think the next time she raises it and pushes me on the promotion front, I will just point out that we are on different paths and have different passions which leads to differing decisions.

£3k more than you a week? A month? A year? If it's a year I really can't see what you are talking about as that is negligible.

Look OP. There are two different things here. The intricacies of your dynamic with your mate and how you two converse is one. That’s up to you.

But - a generic assertion that we mustn’t talk about money - is damaging, wrong and all sorts of why women’s progression, promotion, advancement etc lags behind. I have lost count of how many women in my profession who have not negotiated a job offer and starting salary because “one mustn’t talk about money”. I am one of these women. My male friend who was hired the same day at the same level as me 8 years ago swung 3 spine points higher on the salary scale and a massive relocation package from within UK. I relocated from a different country but didn’t find it in me to mention costs. If salaries aren’t compared and discussed the gender pay gap will lie unaddressed.

You sort out your interpersonal friend issues but please Try to see how damaging this “won’t discuss money” thing is.

Just also reminds me - I have an aquaintance who “won’t ever speak of race” because it is ever so embarrasssing. What it achieves is that it silences people and generates a culture of silence.

Please question what your family taught you and please ask yourself what these silencing cultures around money achieves.

As she is my friend she should of course be able to discuss her career aspirations with me. So I will be mindful of that. But I dont really like that she talks about how she is so unhappy on her current salary which is already higher than mine and I dont like her telling me to go for a promotion.

I don't mind talking about money per se, but I can see where you are coming from. I have a friend that constantly goes on about her savings/inheritance and it's really tedious. Although I think hers comes from a place of insecurity it is really off putting to hear about it all the time

@EhUp

Funny clip, but the use of the word 'dago' was shocking. Can't believe that was allowed in the 90s.

YABU and YANBU = 50% ! Interesting.

But she might be unhappy on it - it might be genuinely low for her role or sector. An arts and science industry salary are never going to be comparable.

I'm happy with my salary - my best mate at work earns more than 2.5 times what I do due to her being in a very senior, very specialist role (which I couldn't and wouldn't want to do!)

That said, dps family talk about money endlessly and I find it incredibly tedious. I do not care whether I could save 10p on a can of beans by changing supermarket. I do not care who drives what or holidays where at what cost. For them, financial status is used as a means of measuring people's social worth, which I really dislike. I deliberately avoid any conversations which probe at my financial circumstances.

Surely close friends should be able to discuss money/salaries? I can speak to my closest friends about anything.

But I dont really like that she talks about how she is so unhappy on her current salary which is already higher than mine

It sounds like you’re insecure in how much you earn so you don’t like her talking about being unhappy despite her earning more.

As I’ve already said, you need to stop projecting. She’s unhappy with how much she earns because it’s not good enough for her. It’s nothing to do with you and your finances.

See Lizzie it’s understandable that you don’t like her telling you to go for promotion (although she may just think she’s being encouraging, especially if you’re sitting silently with your lips pursed at her “vulgarity”).

However you keep connecting her salary to yours and the tone is very much that she has nothing to complain about because after all she’s on more than you. The fact that it’s higher than yours is irrelevant - she believes her skills are undervalued and wants to work towards a higher salary and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Some of your comments such as family taught her conserving money is more important than anything are a bit I know what’s important in life and tbh I think you’re judging her desire to earn more as some kind of moral failing.

Perhaps she's gone down a wormhole at the moment because she's all consumed with raising a deposit and securing a mortgage, it's all she can think about.

She's maybe trying to give you the benefit of her experience with house buying.. It's shockingly difficult and expensive after all. She's become a house buying bore essentially . It will pass.

It's all a little self absorbed if this is THE topic of conversation. You need to make your feelings clear and explain your differing life goals?

I don't know, sometimes when your friends all reach mid, late twenties you do drift apart as your lives take different paths.

There seems to be a bit of resentment or irritation bubbling under the surface and very different values. It could mean the death knell for such a close friendship.

I think you are getting a hard time here, OP.

I earn well but I don't tell my friends what I earn and I wouldn't expect them to tell me.

You're not jealous just because you don't constantly want your friend talking about how she earns more than you. As for encouraging you to go for a promotion, it's something that's fine to mention, but you don't push it on people.

Some people are more money oriented than others.

I think there's a huge difference between talking about money, as quite an interesting topic, wanting to improve salary etc. And some people I know who seem to talk about money as a way to 'rank' people. My DH's family are a bit like this - it's all about status and judging people by their money.

I'd just tell her that money isn't as important to you as it is to her, and that you have other things that are more important to you, but that you understand that it is something that's important to her so you're happy to listen, but definitely don't need advice on your own finances.

@LemonTT

You sound smug. One of the worse types of vulgar

What on earth? And she doesn't sound "jealous" either; she quite clearly said it's not something she's interested in.

@gypsywater but everyone will know how much money youve got to spend on a house when youve bought it?

You dont even have to snoop, everyone will know because of the size of your house and your area? Like if you buy a 10 bed mansion in London everyone knows your budget is significanty larger than a bedsit in newcastle?

You are being really bizarre, sounds like your friend is just exited for you