AIBU to not invite the teetotal vegan?

[CyanSnake]

I know the title sounds horrible; but I’m not sure how else to phrase it? Also sorry for basically giving my life story but I don’t want to dripfeed.

Every so often I host dinner parties and games evenings for my groups of friends. We normally also use these to raise a bit of money for local charities. Call it twee if you want, but I normally have some sort of theme, for example at new year I threw one that was Italian - with homemade pasta etc.

There is a small group of 6-8 whom I invite although most often not, not all attend due to work and other commitments. Most of these friends have no dietary requirements apart from one who is a teetotal vegan. Now, this normally isn’t an issue as soft drink is always an option and I normally make a vegan version of dishes that I need to. Last time I hosted; just before lockdown, I challenged myself and cooked everything vegan. We also made the night alcohol free and made virgin cocktails etc...

Now; to get to the point. I’ve been dabbling in old recipes from the form of cury, which is a medieval cookbook - it’s been sort of my lockdown hobby. And, I’d like to host (appropriately socially distanced and in the garden!) a sort of medieval banquet themed dinner. The problem is veganism didn’t really exist then; and frankly I know it’s harsh but I just can’t be bothered to create vegan versions of each course. This is compounded by the fact that this friend is a bit flaky and sometimes backs out at the last minute citing “headache” or a “cold”. I know I could just invite her and explain that there might not be a lot of food she can eat, but if I do I’ll feel utterly compelled to either faff about trying to make stuff vegan or ill feel guilty all night and it’ll be ruined anyway...

So; would you invite her and try to adapt; or not invite her and cite the guidelines on number of people you can have in the garden?

YABU - Invite the vegan friend
YANBU - Don’t invite the vegan friend.

I feel awful just asking!

I'm a tee-total vegan. I'm pretty easy to please...a bit of salad or veg or fruit, some bread - stuff you'd usually have at a meal anyway, and if you're feeling kind a beyond burger or similar fake meat chucked on the side or even just a baked potato with a dollop of flora would be fine.

I can cope with that, but not with people who make a life-style decision although they can actually cope with the dietary consume (if thea wanted too)

🤣 Fucking hell. You can’t cope with people who make different choices to you? Are you serious?

How do people cope with life with views like this? Live and let live and all that.

@PurpleDaisies

What’s the difference between hating the taste of meat and hating eating it because of ethical reasons?

This is what I don't understand "hating the taste of meat" but they all run off and buy the "vegetarian meals" - they hate the taste of meat but they want something that tastes like it?

This is what I don't understand "hating the taste of meat" but they all run off and buy the "vegetarian meals" - they hate the taste of meat but they want something that tastes like it?

Nope, they don’t ‘all run off’ and do that. Read my earlier post, I said I can’t stand anything that tastes meaty as I never liked the taste of meat. Along with animal rights, that’s another reason I don’t eat meat. But I guess it’s more fun to just make stuff up. 🙄

I would tell her about the medieval theme and say because there's no real vegan equivalent, this time you'll get a vegan M&S meal and pudding in for her. Job done.

This is what I don't understand "hating the taste of meat" but they all run off and buy the "vegetarian meals" - they hate the taste of meat but they want something that tastes like it?

Well (1) they all dont and (2) For those that do, are you really so thick you can’t see the difference in eating a meat substitute and eating a dead animal? Really? You dont see A difference at all?

You didn’t answer my question there... how is it different if a guest dislikes the taste of something verses disliking eating something because it had to be killed to go on their plate?

Most vegans/vegetarians don’t hate the taste of meat, they hate eating it for ethical reasons. The reason for the preference shouldn’t make a difference to you as a host. What matters is your guest won’t enjoy their meal if you ignore it.

The reason for the preference shouldn’t make a difference to you as a host.

It shouldn’t. But some people are just intolerant.

Actually the people with the "extra dietary requirements" are the meat eaters, because they eat what the vegans eat plus the extra requirement of meat.

That is just nonsense. For a start they also require no milk, no eggs, no butter, no cheese, no honey... They require the host to buy alternatives to all those things or to change the Planned meal.

Tbh I would not be fussed having to eat a vegan menu just because one of the party is vegan. Having looked at Mark's vegan range I'm afraid they don't look very appetising. I do like the occasional vegetarian dish but not having dairy or eggs is a bridge too far for me. I mean if you all go to a restaurant do you all order vegan if she is there. Do your menu and make a couple of vegan dishes for her. It's ok for her to be tee total but not ok to judge anyone who isn't. I would have a drink anyway and if she didn't like it tough.

@IgiveupallthenamesIwantedareg0
Your arguments are ridiculous and illogical. There is absolutely no difference between someone choosing not to eat fish and mushrooms because they don't like the taste, and someone choosing not to eat fish or meat because they find it morally wrong. Yet you happily accommodate the former and label it a "taste preference", but refuse to accommodate the latter and label it a "lifestyle preference". What complete codswallop. Both have chosen not to eat these things when they would be perfectly capable of eating them "if they wanted to". You're just playing with words in an attempt to justify your prejudices. It would be interesting to know why you feel so threatened by people who make moral/ethical life choices that differ from yours that you have such a strong and exclusionary overreaction to them.

@SoupDragon

Actually the people with the "extra dietary requirements" are the meat eaters, because they eat what the vegans eat plus the extra requirement of meat.

That is just nonsense. For a start they also require no milk, no eggs, no butter, no cheese, no honey... They require the host to buy alternatives to all those things or to change the Planned meal.

So the host has knowingly planned a meal that excluded one of the guests? Some host. A decent host would use vegan-friendly ingredients for the side dishes which could be eaten by everybody, and meat would then be a required extra to go with them.

The first words out her mouth were “What will you be cooking that I can eat

Id tell her nothing with that comment, she can ubereats some vegan dish on the day at her own cost
She chooses to be difficult, you can choose not to pander to her choices.
I dont expect a separate meal cooked just for me cos im allergic to seafood. I sort myself out, eat before hand, bring own food.

This is not meant to be goady, I'm just interested.

To the non-meat eaters, when you invite meat-eaters for dinner do you prepare separate dishes for them? Or do you serve what is to your liking only?

I'm asking because a lot of pp have wondered why preparing two different courses (x3) would be a faff. But do you do this yourselves with meat dishes for visitors and still think it is no hassle?

Invite the vegan and buy a selection of vegan ready meals/snacks from the supermarket. Heat in the oven once the other stuff is ready and she can have her own little tapas table?

I think that if you really liked her, this wouldn't be an issue. But she's demanding, a bit self-absorbed, judgemental and never reciprocates your hospitality. So actually, she's probably someone you try to tell yourself you like, rather than an actual friend.

That said, you're doing yourself no favours. She's a pain in the arse, and going straight to asking what food you will be cooking specially for her is outright rude. So don't scramble straight to trying to give her a list of options that sound 'good enough'. Tell her that, actually, it's tricky this time. You can provide a bowl of (very!) plain porridge and some small, hard apples, but if she wants more, she needs to bring it herself. (And to stick to the theme - if she brings potato curry, you won't be serving it.)

All this jumping through hoops for someone who often can't be bothered to attend sounds crap. I think you should stop doing it.

Unless I'm well off track, it's not really her dietary choices that are the problem. It's her personality and behaviour.

If she's asking what you are cooking that she can eat as a first response to the invite I'd not invite her, but it sounds like you already have.

I was bought up in a vegetarian household, the assumption was for us to work around other people's diet/menu and not for the host to be put out. (That said, we often had to pretend we didn't see the meat fat going over the veggie option).

I'm harsh, she'd be having a cold salad if she came, lettuce, tomatoes, cucumber and carrots or something. Might let her forage in the garden bushes for a snack or something.

She sounds difficult, she sounds demanding and a drain. It probably just fall out with her on purpose so she hated me. Problem solved 😂

Why mention the teetotal thing? It ended up being irrelevant...

Invite her but let her know the food will all have meat in it so she will need to bring something, or buy some nice frozen veggie burgers and buns so that if she does come you can cook her one and if she flakes you can eat them yourself at a later date.

Does she ever invite you to dinner? If not then I wouldn't worry too much. She doesn't have a leg to stand on if she never reciprocates the effort.

[quote TibetanTerrier]@IgiveupallthenamesIwantedareg0
Your arguments are ridiculous and illogical. There is absolutely no difference between someone choosing not to eat fish and mushrooms because they don't like the taste, and someone choosing not to eat fish or meat because they find it morally wrong. Yet you happily accommodate the former and label it a "taste preference", but refuse to accommodate the latter and label it a "lifestyle preference". What complete codswallop. Both have chosen not to eat these things when they would be perfectly capable of eating them "if they wanted to". You're just playing with words in an attempt to justify your prejudices. It would be interesting to know why you feel so threatened by people who make moral/ethical life choices that differ from yours that you have such a strong and exclusionary overreaction to them.[/quote]
If someone accepts an invitation to my table I will cater for their culinary preferences but not for their moral preferences , I do not, and will not, cook for moral preferences.

@giantangryrooster

This is not meant to be goady, I'm just interested.

To the non-meat eaters, when you invite meat-eaters for dinner do you prepare separate dishes for them? Or do you serve what is to your liking only?

I'm asking because a lot of pp have wondered why preparing two different courses (x3) would be a faff. But do you do this yourselves with meat dishes for visitors and still think it is no hassle?

Not quite what you asked, as we do eat meat, but my son has multiple food allergies so our family meals often exclude a number of common ingredients. However if we have guests I generally cook two variations of the meal as some people think that some of the things we have are "weird" or they won't try them. I wouldn't knowingly serve anyone something that they don't like so I don't make guests eat a diet free from DS's allergens apart from sesame and cashews as he is susceptible to even minor cross contamination with those, but obviously I'm not going to feed my son with anything dangerous either. So I adapt the meals to suit everyone.I don't find it particularly troublesome but then I fairly often do the same thing with our own meals. I don't, as a rule, cook totally separate meals. If we have guests I quite often do something along the lines of tapas and ensure that there are at least a couple of dishes that will suit everyone. Or I cook something that can be split at some point in the preparation. For instance, I do a carbonara type thing which I use soya cream for, but I add cheese to it after I've taken some out for the non dairy people. My sister in law is vegan so if she was coming I would put extra veg into her portion and omit the bacon, but she'd get the same pasta and sauce as DS. ÙSo basically everyone would be getting the same meal but with variations to suit them. Same with desserts. I usually make a vegan "base", say a vegan cake, waffles or pancakes, but then would offer a choice of vegan or non vegan accompaniments. So there might be dairy or non dairy ice creams, honey or maple syrup and so on. It takes a bit more planning, but not really any extra work to speak of. There are quite a lot of recipes that you can do the same kind of thing with. In fact I have a recipe book that is specifically aimed at families with both vegetarian and omnivorous members which is quite handy.

It's not really her dietary choices that are the problem. It's her personality and behaviour.

This. She has no business being grumpy if you can't cater for her every single time at YOUR parties.

Among long-term vegetarians, there's usually a polite arrangement beforehand between hosts and guests. If I'm a guest I always suggest something I can bring, even if it's just tofu burgers to throw on the barbecue. If I'm hosting, guests know that I won't cook meat (I don't even know how to cook it) but they can bring it if they want. I think that's fair. No whining, no grumbling from either side. They usually prefer my veg dishes anyway.

This medieval feast sounds excellent! I've just looked up the Forme de Cury -- did you see the vinaigrette salad recipe? Tell your vegan guest to bring that!

Just make her a chickpea curry to go with the bread (chickpeas, curry sauce) and give her an apple juice.its really not that hard.

She's not your friend. You are not a nice person in the way you think. Even the mention of the word teetotal is derogatory and said nastily. And I drunk like a fish. But I don't mind if someone else doesn't.

When I invite people I do so with the mindset that I want them there, I want them to have a nice time.

I will always take into account any foodstuffs they don't like. My Dh doesn't like tuna, one friend mushrooms, one friend cucumber. My closest 2 friends are vegan and vegetarian. We eat quite a bit of meat in our house. I accommodate all. I think your mentality is at fault here.

If someone accepts an invitation to my table I will cater for their culinary preferences but not for their moral preferences , I do not, and will not, cook for moral preferences.

I would never visit somewhere twice if this was the pig-headed attitude. I’m glad we’re not friends.

I do not and will not put meat or meat products in my mouth. I don’t care if you think that would make me a rude guest. How entitled of you to think that anyone who ‘visits your table’ should pander to your ridiculous ideas about what people should and shouldn’t eat!

What is it about meat eaters that they think everyone should eat like them?!? I get attacked regularly for my choices to not eat meat when I never do anything of the sort. If someone asks me why I’m a vegetarian, I’ll explain but I never force my views on others. I never roll my eyes at their meal. I never tell them they should eat like me. Why should a meat eater decide they can force their views on me?!