To believe that it won't all be over by Christmas

[caroline161]

I hope it will but really. Does anyone truly believe this or do you think that covid-19 is going to cause a lot of trouble this winter?
Yes it will all be back to normal by Christmas
No we are in for a tough winter.

@rookiemere I was at a street cafe yesterday and watched as a group of people approached two men at another table. One person in each group knew each other (IYSWIM). These two hugged and then there was much hand-shaking all round, nice to meet you etc etc. Then the group went off down the street. I was . I realise that the risk of transmission is tiny but the rules have been put there for a reason, and shaking hands with a friend of a friend seems to me to be the definition of unnecessary contact.

Covid markers have been found in medical films in France from November and researchers are now examining those taken in October. It's now estimated (through modelling) to have been in China as early as September. Sewage samples show it widespread in affected areas of Italy in mid December last year.

Anecdotally, many people in the UK have reported that they had surprisingly consistent symptoms with long illness from late October last year.

It's been around for a while.

I realise that the risk of transmission is tiny but the rules have been put there for a reason, and shaking hands with a friend of a friend seems to me to be the definition of unnecessary contact.

I was hoping that pointless things like hand shaking would get consigned to history, but obviously not. At least I feel more able to refuse to shake hands whereas before covid it wasn't socially or businessly to refuse. I hope hugging virtual strangers also becomes more voluntary rather than accepted.

Sad that such a basic way to fight off infection has been neglected in favour of more complex and intrusive measures.

People were given the opportunity back in February to avoid lockdown etc by taking simple precautions like hand washing, not shaking hands, social distancing, avoiding busy places. Unfortunately there were far too many arrogant idiots who ignored the advice and just did want they want to do, hence the numbers of infections increased and lockdown was needed. If people can't take simple/sensible precautions, then complex and intrusive measures become necessary to force more to comply.

[quote TicketToTheWrongFilm]@rookiemere I was at a street cafe yesterday and watched as a group of people approached two men at another table. One person in each group knew each other (IYSWIM). These two hugged and then there was much hand-shaking all round, nice to meet you etc etc. Then the group went off down the street. I was . I realise that the risk of transmission is tiny but the rules have been put there for a reason, and shaking hands with a friend of a friend seems to me to be the definition of unnecessary contact.[/quote]
They felt it necessary or have had enough of it all and are going on as normal.

I've seen people do this and to be honest it's up to them, I'm not surprised by any of it to be honest and I think we'll see more of this as the weeks go on.

They felt it necessary or have had enough of it all and are going on as normal.

Well, clearly. I’ve had more than enough of it. But, you know, we’ve been asked not to do it.

I've seen people do this and to be honest it's up to them, I'm not surprised by any of it to be honest and I think we'll see more of this as the weeks go on.

I dare say.

Christ, some of you lot are positively salivating.

I agree that normal should include good handwashing and that this will have a positive effect on a lot of other illnesses too. However, I think some other measures will be here to stay - and will actually allow us to socialise, go out, have fun. Asian countries are a model to look at here.

I also think that some things should not return to normal. The technology to support home working has always existed - now is the time to look at making that far, far more common than it has been. There's a balance to be struck between wanting to go 'back to normal' and identifying the silver linings so that we can keep some of them.

@KaronAVyrus

Christ, some of you lot are positively salivating.

I really don’t understand thjs viewpoint which I’ve seen before on MN. Anyone who is slightly pessimistic and doesn’t express the opinion that we’ll all be back to normal within a few weeks with no hiccups along the way is accused of “revelling” in it or “salivating”.

I don’t see anyone salivating at all.

I’m certainly of the opinion that we won’t be back to normal. Of course I may be wrong....I hope I am wrong. I’m not salivating at all. I hate this. It’s cost me dearly. I’ve lost a colleague, DD’s friend’s dad died last night from it. Dd has had a nervous breakdown and won’t go back to uni and we’re having to pay for CBT as she’s been diagnosed as having PTSD and anxiety. Dh has had a massive paycut, I’ve had a massive paycut. My day to day life has changed beyond recognition and I hate it.

I’d love nothing more than for things to be back to normal.

I also think that some things should not return to normal. The technology to support home working has always existed - now is the time to look at making that far, far more common than it has been. There's a balance to be struck between wanting to go 'back to normal' and identifying the silver linings so that we can keep some of them.

Fully agree with that. It's certainly shown that "face to face" isn't always essential. The growth in home working, internet shopping etc., are here to stay. I also hope that phone consultations with doctors/consultants etc is here to stay, and that we don't go back to horribly cramped/crowded GP/hospital waiting rooms, and the stupidity of out-patient clinics giving everyone the same 9.30 appointment time. Some things should stay changed for the better.

@KaronAVyrus

Christ, some of you lot are positively salivating.

Not at all. It's called being realistic.

Thing is, for those saying that earlier infection couldn’t have been the first wave, that all depends.

Viruses habitually mutate, if the virus started as a weaker strain and infected a lot of people but because we didn’t know it was a new virus we didn’t consider it a wave, then it could easily have been the first wave. Then virus mutates and we have a second wave.

Also, it was peak flu season in September/October/november last year. It would have been assumed that any illness was the flu, which would account for the higher than usual flu infections.

So entirely possible.

@AlternativePerspective - I don't think it's hysterical. I know of 3 people (family members of friends) who have died and several who have lost their jobs.

In contrast, I don't know anyone who's died of flu.

Kazzyhoward I'm not sure that we know if the approach focused on hand washing and distancing didn't work. It might have done and prevented stricter lockdown, had some major events been cancelled and flights from more highly infected areas restricted sooner or a proper quarantine imposed on arrivals to the UK.

It probably didn't help that in between demonstrating Happy Birthday x 2 hand-washing, Boris confused himself with Princess Diana and went around shaking hands with everyone, either through sheer imbecility or deliberately as pursuing herd immunity through stealth.

I guess we'll find out now how effective it is.

I don't know many (any?) people whose lives have returned to normal, and I'm surprised by the person who says everyone they know is back to normal.

My life and mental health has been upended to such an extent that I'm emigrating. I'm amazed that some think it's all overblown and I actually think you're not being realistic.

I live in Sheffield, at the end of this month the World Snooker Championship is being held at the Crucible, Boris in his infinite wisdom has allowed spectators to find out what the effects will be on Covid spread. Players are up in arms, they need to play to earn money, some players need the winnings to keep themselves in the professional game, they have no choice but to play.

@CustardySergeant

It's very upsetting. We haven't seen our lovely daughter since last Christmas and since she's working and mixing with people she understandably won't visit in case she unknowingly infects us (I'm 66 and my husband is 73). It doesn't look as though the situation will be any better by next Christmas, and tbh I'm seriously wondering whether we'll ever see her again. Mind you, I'm not known for looking on the bright side . Still, I suppose we have to be thankful that we're all remaining fit and well so far and can talk on the phone (landline). I don't have a mobile phone of any kind and my husband's isn't a smart phone, so there's no possibility of seeing each other via phones. I wonder if the situation will ever get better. Quite frankly, unless and until there's a vaccine, this might be as good as it gets for the foreseeable future.

Get a smart phone for yourself and your husband, download and learn how to use WhatsApp/FaceTime or whatever. It's not difficult, you're making your situation worse than it has to be.

@custardysergeant you're posting on Mumsnet using some kind of device - why can't you talk to your daughter face to face via Zoom or Houseparty? Haven't physically seen mine since the New Year but we've had plenty of WhatsApp and Zoom conversations.

In contrast, I don't know anyone who's died of flu. Well, I don’t know anyone who’s died of COVID or even been seriously affected by it.

In contrast, four years ago the flu put me on life support, I now have serious heart problems and need a transplant. Last year I suffered a serious heart crash and had to be defibrillated and then a cardiac arrest two weeks later and had to have CPR. Have been on a ventilator twice and oxygen for four weeks while in hospital. And all because of the flu four years ago.

Swings and roundabouts.

As for job losses, the longer we fail to go back to normal, the more job losses there will be. Which is precisely why going back to something more normal is important.

In contrast, I don't know anyone who's died of flu

Flu deaths aren’t counted in the same way though, either. If you had terminal cancer with a few weeks to live and you caught flu - they wouldn’t put flu on your death certificate. They’d name the cancer. Same can not be said for Covid-19.

Dying OF something, and dying WITH something are two very different things.

Things may not be back to normal but there's no way we can afford another lockdown, so things will just have to carry on somehow.

@vanillandhoney

Things may not be back to normal but there's no way we can afford another lockdown, so things will just have to carry on somehow.

The decisions around lockdown raises a lot of policy and ethical questions. I think another lockdown would be incredibly damaging - but I see Johnson wouldn't rule it out today. The risk it may be needed is there. And as a person who makes a lot of hyperbolic and groundless statements, it surprised me he didn't rule it out. Which I think means whatever jolly noises he was making on Friday, underneath he is a bit scared the scientists' fears could come to pass.

@AlternativePerspective

In contrast, I don't know anyone who's died of flu. Well, I don’t know anyone who’s died of COVID or even been seriously affected by it.

In contrast, four years ago the flu put me on life support, I now have serious heart problems and need a transplant. Last year I suffered a serious heart crash and had to be defibrillated and then a cardiac arrest two weeks later and had to have CPR. Have been on a ventilator twice and oxygen for four weeks while in hospital. And all because of the flu four years ago.

Swings and roundabouts.

As for job losses, the longer we fail to go back to normal, the more job losses there will be. Which is precisely why going back to something more normal is important.

Oh dear, that's awful. Sorry to hear that.

@Nat6999
Where do you think that prize money comes from if not ticket sales...
The spectators are hardly on top of the players at Snooker tournaments in usual times and the numbers of spectators being admitted is heavily reduced on a normal year.

The players have had to play to enter, unlike most other sports they don't get paid unless they play, by the time they actually get to the crucible players outside the top 16 will have been in Sheffield for nearly 2 weeks playing in the qualifiers, especially this year with Covid, they are quarantined in a hotel for the whole time until they get knocked out. Most haven't played from February until end of May & haven't earned any money but still have to pay entry fees, travel & hotel bills. Compared to other sports, lower ranked players don't earn much.