Mask avoiders are basically anti-vaxers?

[Chanjer]

Aside from in the case of medical exemption obviously.

AIBU to think a lot of people that mount a personal argument against masks are of a similar mindset though?

Mask avoiders are basically anti-vaxers

Or people who wear glasses or people who have had Covid and are now immune and not contagious or people who find it oppressive wearing something over your mouth and nose.

I up till now haven’t worn a mask but got my first the other day when they announced that we would need one if we went shopping.

I think I will wear one now permanently when I am out just for vanity reasons.

I caught sight of myself in the self service check out CCTV screen and I realise I didn’t look bad.
Although I am pretty ancient I have good skin and no lines on my forehead and around my eyes my problem is with my ultra saggy jowls and chin and my ugly nose and even though I have never smoked I have those lines running downwards around my lips.
Covered up with a mask I looked about 35. I had to do a double take that it was me looking back at myself.

Definitely will wear a mask from now on till I can afford a face, neck and chin lift and a nose job.

I was in the supermarket earlier and would say 70% of people had no mask and hardly any of the people working there either

To label them all as anti Vax evils is s bit extreme I think

They even said in their conclusion that a homemade one should be a last resort, and how many people out there are using ones like that, or one from people on etsy? That's my point, better masks would be better, but a country full of people wearing tshirts over their heads? You may as well not be bothering especially since they are then posting pictures on FB cuddling up to people in their homes. Who they don't live with. They are allowed to do that, but it's how transmission will happen more than in shops.

@Iwalkinmyclothing Fri 17-Jul-20 09:58:06
I'm not overjoyed by masks but there does seem to be sufficient evidence that if enough people wear them enough of the time, there is a reduction in infection rates, that I honestly don't understand why anyone who can safely wear one wouldn't

Where is this evidence. All I see are statements saying 'evidence shows' but no one can point me to any of this evidence. When I do find anything it's all 'may' and 'could' which doesn't constitute EVIDENCE just possibilities.

The best meta research I can find has a few vague reports from medical settings where they are in direct close contact with people who have tested possible. They say they have to be medical masks or 12 ply cotton masks.

I won't be breaking any laws, I've got masks an if (and it's a big if) I go anywhere where they are mandatory I will wear one but I am not remotely convinced I am protecting anyone and I wish someone could convince point me to convincing research.

@Oliversmumsarmy Or people who wear glasses or people who have had Covid and are now immune and not contagious or people who find it oppressive wearing something over your mouth and nose

Otherwise known as selfish people (bar those with actual medical conditions). Even those who have had COVID given mixed evidence on persistence of antibodies and the potential to get it again they should still be wearing a mask as it doesn’t harm them and keeps others safe )

I have glasses and hate wearing a mask but I am not anti mask as the benefits are clear.

The biggest issue with those who don’t wear masks is that they are only concerned with how it affects them rather than the impact on other people. It’s a sad insight into how selfish and self absorbed society has become.

Or people who wear glasses or people who have had Covid and are now immune and not contagious or people who find it oppressive wearing something over your mouth and nose.

These aren't reasons, they are poor excuses. Glasses are not an exemption and if you bothered Googleing you'd see ways of managing the steam issue, there is not firm evidence that having covid once makes you immune, you can still get it again and pass it on. Finding it "oppressive" well, actual decent people will give up a short period of minor discomfort to help protect people.

@IAintentDead I found this one was pretty @conclusive. www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2?ContensisTextOnly=true

In figure one the box whisker plots pattern is clear and the p-values are statistically significant at the 1% level for droplets and 5% level for aerosols for coronavirus.

@KeepingPlain You may as well not be bothering err so you missed the part in bold where they said BOTH masks SIGNIFICANTLY reduced the number of microorganisms expelled??????

Given shortage of PPE it seems pretty clear that everyone Should be wearing a mask even if homemade....

No. I'm completely in favour of all vaccinations. Playing Russian Roulette with my child's health is not something I would do. Wearing masks are unbearably uncomfortable and will kill an already struggling economy. Just been into my city and barely anyone was wearing a mask. It was quite busy because I think maybe people are getting out before the masks become mandatory. Bet the streets will be quieter then. They asked us to flatten the curve which we all did. Ridiculous to add masks in at this stage. Bojo said that it will encourage people to go out it. It won't. It will put off a lot of us not comfortable with masks and we'll avoid shops if possible. The terrified people who haven't left their house since March and think a jogger passing them will give them Covid aren't going to suddenly start shopping eating out etc.

I'm perfectly happy to agree that masks do help slow the spread of covid.

But when there's only about one new case in every 50,000 people a week in my borough, and when there's been no deaths in the past two days in London...

I feel like wearing a mask is pointless right now.

If infections start to go up again, then I will make a call on when to wear it more often, and of course I'll comply with the law when that comes in.

Hi don’t think this is true at all. I used to suffer from ptsd. One of my triggers was anything on my face (linked to the traumatic event) If I was still suffering from those symptoms and had to wear a mask I would literally be on the floor in the fetal position believing I was dying.

As it is I’m a lot better but I will have to severely limit my time when I have to wear one though so unlikely to be going shopping anytime soon and will only enter environments where I have to in absolute emergencies.

For some people the mental implications of having something over their face are unimaginable for most people lucky enough to no suffer in similar ways.

I certainly don't think that people who have physical or PTSD-related reasons for not wearing masks are like anti-vaxxers. I don't even think that about people who might be lazy about wearing them. It's just a specific group who regard it as an attempt by government (or other powerful people) to 'take away our rights' - I have even come across someone who said that he'd wear them if the government weren't imposing them, but that since they are, he will deliberately refuse to wear them, or to pay a fine. And/or that they want to 'live their lives' without having to pander to what they see as other people's unreasonable fears or 'some old people who are going to die soon anyway'. (The same people are often also reluctant to socially distance, making them more dangerous). And I think it's this group that overlaps with anti-vaxxers. I think that this group seems much commoner in America, where it also overlaps significantly with Trump voters, but it does exist to some extent in the UK as well.

I sympathise with those who have genuine medical reasons to not wear masks - they need the protection of everyone around them wearing masks. Much the same as how a vaccine works.
I have no time for those who have trivial or nonsensical reasons for not wearing a mask. I have heard all sorts of nonsense about CO2/oxygen levels.
People aren't being asked to donate a kidney. It doesn't take much to wear one. Yes you might need to practise around the house to get used to them but I don't think that's asking much. Medical staff wear them for hours and hours. I am sure they didn't like them when they first tried them but they persevered.
Think of others!!

I would say that I don't see that these groups overlap especially, so no, I don't think it's similar.

There is a sort of personality type that takes anything they hear from certain authorities almost without question, and is also anxious. IME these people can go both ways though. They are anxious vaccines will kill them and see some sort of alternative health practitioners as the authorities. Or, they see regular medical health professionals as the authorities and are anxious that if they don't follow recommendations they will probably kill their kids and never live with the guilt.

Most normal people get their vaccinations but are also quite aware that modern medicine makes errors sometimes and that some things are more evidence based than others, or that sometimes there are also non-medical considerations too.

I'm finding that the super-pro mask people are like the first group. There are also people who are pro-mask but take a more moderate position, are willing to consider that it is a bit of a judgement call with limited evidence and other factors to consider. Some people take much the same view but are moderate anti-mask, they may think for example it should only be mandated in certain settings.

I haven't seen many people who are anti-mask in the sense they don't think anyone should wear them or they are seriously hazardous, like anti-vaxers. Where I have seen those kinds of ideas my sense is that rather than thinking that way, they are reacting to the people who are saying that everyone must wear them outside of the home and it should be regulated etc.

I'm not happy about masks, very not convinced, but meantime I struggle not to loathe anti-vaxxers & despair of conspiracy theorists. I am not in the Venn diagram intersection people like to believe in.

@Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket

There's a difference. The messaging on masks has been contradictory and the science is significantly more uncertain. The UK government gave fairly clear 'there is no evidence to say masks will protect you' messaging back in March/April, rather than acknowledging the uncertainty and has had to change its tune (even though there is still pretty limited evidence). This means that people do not have a lot of trust in the advice given now. People will also vary in how annoying/painful/aesthetically displeasing/ frightening etc... they find mask wearing. Someone facing a 12 hour shift in one may find it much more unappealing than someone nipping to the shop, everyone's mileage will vary. Add to that that everyone is variously scared and pissed off at the moment anyway and you get the kind of horrible dismissive public discourse we see on here and twitter. Of course if you tell someone they are stupid and a vector, and probably killing the vulnerable they will not want to listen to you!

Yeah, this.

People who are more of the view that masks should not be mandatory often feel that the downsides of them simply don't justify their use being a requirement in most settings. And the evidence isn't particularly clear that it is.

Where I live, they are just beginning to make masks mandatory in more places. But we managed to bring Covid levels down here pretty well without many people using them. We now have not had a new case in weeks, I think there is one person still ill in hospital in the whole province.

Many people don't see the trade offs as necessary with no community spread. As soon as someone tells these people they are killing others with their selfishness, they pretty reasonably decide you are an anxiety ridden crackpot.

@ShinyFootball

I was in the supermarket earlier and would say 70% of people had no mask and hardly any of the people working there either

I've noticed a big age difference since people started wearing them more, about two or three weeks ago here.

It seems to be people under about 35 mostly. Which surprised me a lot as they are less likely to be vulnerable.

I am wondering if they aren't being more influenced by pressures on social media.

@Goosefoot “ It seems to be people under about 35 mostly. Which surprised me a lot as they are less likely to be vulnerable.”

What? Masks are to protect other people so it makes perfect sense those who are not vulnerable wear them. Younger people are more adaptable and likely to do something for good of society if you look at moves toward sustainable shopping and climate responsibility

'Some people take much the same view but are moderate anti-mask, they may think for example it should only be mandated in certain settings.'

Well, but that's everyone, isn't it? I don't think anyone wants a mandate for people to wear masks everywhere and at all times!

Total mix of ages round here both masked and not

[quote Thereisalight7]@Goosefoot “ It seems to be people under about 35 mostly. Which surprised me a lot as they are less likely to be vulnerable.”

What? Masks are to protect other people so it makes perfect sense those who are not vulnerable wear them. Younger people are more adaptable and likely to do something for good of society if you look at moves toward sustainable shopping and climate responsibility[/quote]
If it's a matter of wanting to help others I'd expect older and younger people to be wearing them at similar rates.

This idea that younger people are more likely to do stuff about climate change etc is pretty much bollox, there is no evidence for that. They probably talk about it more though.

I fully support vaccines but I’m not currently wearing a mask. I’ll wear one when I have to however I’ll also block book online shopping so I don’t have to go out. I do however respect the 2 meter rule, I use hand sanitizer while out and throughly wash with soapy water once home.

Current mask wearing seems to be a mixed bag. Yesterday one family dad no mask, three children one wearing on the chin only, one nose out, last using as a sling shot. The children where also running up and down the isles while the dad gave not one fuck to paint the entire picture. I’ve seen multiple adults with it below the nose or just worn like a necklace.

@ddl1

'Some people take much the same view but are moderate anti-mask, they may think for example it should only be mandated in certain settings.'

Well, but that's everyone, isn't it? I don't think anyone wants a mandate for people to wear masks everywhere and at all times!

I suppose to a point, but there is a difference I would say between people who think there is an evidence base that has to be weighted against other considerations and there is room to disagree or for grey areas, and people whose reaction tends to be if it has any chance or any reduction of risk only bad people would question that.

@OneForMeToo

I fully support vaccines but I’m not currently wearing a mask. I’ll wear one when I have to however I’ll also block book online shopping so I don’t have to go out. I do however respect the 2 meter rule, I use hand sanitizer while out and throughly wash with soapy water once home.

Current mask wearing seems to be a mixed bag. Yesterday one family dad no mask, three children one wearing on the chin only, one nose out, last using as a sling shot. The children where also running up and down the isles while the dad gave not one fuck to paint the entire picture. I’ve seen multiple adults with it below the nose or just worn like a necklace.

I've seen around the neck a lot, but in places where there is probably no need for one, like out walking. I am thinking that these are people who are then putting it over their faces when they need to get on the bus or go inside a shop etc. Then when they are out they don't want it on their faces and don't see the need.

I wonder though about how much they are ending up handing them and if they are washing hands before and after every time.

@TheLastSaola

I'm perfectly happy to agree that masks do help slow the spread of covid.

But when there's only about one new case in every 50,000 people a week in my borough, and when there's been no deaths in the past two days in London...

I feel like wearing a mask is pointless right now.

If infections start to go up again, then I will make a call on when to wear it more often, and of course I'll comply with the law when that comes in.

This is how I feel. It made more sense earlier, but then it wasn't recommended for various reasons, and a lot of places were closed anyway.

But when there is one person in my province of just under a million people and no community transmission, I am not really thinking it's necessary.

I don't have to go out much if I don't want to, but I went to get a haircut the other day and I felt badly for the hairdressers who were wearing them all day, and it's the same for other workers in jobs like that.