Mask avoiders are basically anti-vaxers?

[Chanjer]

Aside from in the case of medical exemption obviously.

AIBU to think a lot of people that mount a personal argument against masks are of a similar mindset though?

@verybritishproblems

What’s worse (more annoying) is people having one but wearing it in their chin or with their nose out either wear one or not, what’s the point in wearing one for show?

Well actually wearing it over their mouth and not nose is much better than not at all. When people speak the spit droplets and that droplets could carry the Covid-19 virus, they could carry the cold or flu virus but because Covid-19 is a novel virus that seems to be very virulent and new and unknown it seems prudent to have anyone I'm in contact with while shopping to have their face covered and I like my face covered. I am in SE Asia right now and everyone wears a mask, this time next week I will be in Scotland and I am ok with wearing a mask in shops or public transport. I cannot fucking believe the reluctance of healthy people about wearing a mask in a shop. I do understand that some people cannot and that is fine, the mass of the population should cope and adapt to make the vulnerable able to go to the shops.

Luckly i dont go to the shops or use public transport. I get all my shopping online, or send my eldest dd with her mask into the shop.

@vodkaredbullgirl

Luckly i dont go to the shops or use public transport. I get all my shopping online, or send my eldest dd with her mask into the shop.

How lovely for you to send your daughter to wherever you need just because you can't be bothered to wear a face covering I'm sure she appreciates being an assistant to you

Unrelated but I have actually enjoyed wearing a mask because I no longer feel bad about having a resting bitch face. Finally I can shop and relax all face muscles. Also I can mouth obscenities to idiots.

(I am actually quite a happy person normally )

Pro vaxers are usually pro choice. This isn't about choice, it's total compulsion with police enforcement.

Most "mask avoiders" are more: "I'll wear a mask where required, I'll just do less "fun" shopping as it won't be fun."

Seems reasonable, surely?

@JosephineDeBeauharnais

I find the anti-maskers fall into two camps: politically motivated (don’t believe in Covid, don’t believe what we’re told about it) or vanity motivated (they look awful; I’ll look awful in one). I’ve been surprised at how many people I know are in camp 2 .

Wow. You know some exceedingly shallow and vain people. The vanity aspct has not occurred to me at all.

I admit that as a glasses wearer I strugggle with wearing a mask (steaming issues) but I am wearing one for the greater good. I have started wearing the one DD made me so that I can get used to having to wear one. I went to a shopping mall this morning, and I was in the minority.

I will say that as a glasses wearing mask wearer I do fiddle with my face/mask more than if I wasn't wearing one. However, I have bought some pipe cleaners this morning and will hopefully be able to make the mask fit more comfortable.

There's a difference. The messaging on masks has been contradictory and the science is significantly more uncertain. The UK government gave fairly clear 'there is no evidence to say masks will protect you' messaging back in March/April, rather than acknowledging the uncertainty and has had to change its tune (even though there is still pretty limited evidence). This means that people do not have a lot of trust in the advice given now. People will also vary in how annoying/painful/aesthetically displeasing/ frightening etc... they find mask wearing. Someone facing a 12 hour shift in one may find it much more unappealing than someone nipping to the shop, everyone's mileage will vary. Add to that that everyone is variously scared and pissed off at the moment anyway and you get the kind of horrible dismissive public discourse we see on here and twitter. Of course if you tell someone they are stupid and a vector, and probably killing the vulnerable they will not want to listen to you!

I'm with gone solo on that one - can poke my tongue out at anyone who annoys me etc.
Just annoys me that the government insists on wearing masks for everything now there is less disease but saying there was no need when the virus was everywhere.
Just reading about a doctor who has measured oxygen in his blood with and without the mask and guess what - no difference so most asthmatics should be fine (especially the mask refusing idiot on the bus today who spent the journey shouting on his phone then lighting up a cigarette as he got off the bus)

YABU. Anti-vaxxers are dangerous, deluded, irresponsible idiots. Certainly anti-maskers should do as they are told and wear masks, but it would be pretty ridiculous to claim they are dangerous idiots when the WHO itself was saying until recently that the general public shouldn't wear masks.

I am really tallying up my labels on these mask threads. So far, from just saying I will be limiting where I need a mask, I have had:

Whiney
Ukip-er
Brexit voter
Anti-vaxxer
Uneducated
Stupid
Selfish
Beach flocker - oh yeah I did that, but it was a quiet beach and local.

Probably more, though the above is quite an achievement. And before the cries of "but we don't mean you" yes you do, every single post in dripping in it.

Not always; but there's a definite overlap. To be clear, there are definitely people who have good medical reasons for not getting vaccinated and rather more people who have good medical reasons for not wearing a mask. But there are also quite a lot of anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers who take the attitude 'Why should I have to make any sacrifice to protect others?' and/or 'The government are infringing my freedoms and I will defy them on principle!' and/or 'If people build up their immune systems and lead a healthy life and don't live in fear, then they won't need vaccines/ masks' and/or 'It's all a plot by the Illuminati and NWO to control us!' And these people often seem to have the same atittude to vaccines and masks.

Well vaccines actually work and are a one off (or nearly) inconvenience. In contrast mask wearing, while useful in some situations, isn’t going to make much of positive difference. Masks do little to protect the vulnerable through personal use. And they’re not going somehow make Covid disappear either. They don’t really seem to have much of a point unless they are being used in a targeted way (like in healthcare settings where there is significant potential for transmission for example). Wearing a mask on your daily walk is going to achieve nothing.

@Ginfordinner the pipe cleaners will help or you can order cheaply the metal strips on amazon. I think they are harder. It will help with glasses steaming. I also use anti fog spray on my glasses (I use that all the te anyway, but it does help massively with face mask)

@IfIHadAHeart I’m not anti-mask I just have no desire to wear one. I find them uncomfortable, hot, and I struggle to understand other people when they have one on

So to summarise your not anti mask you’re just selfish and don’t care about other people only yourself. Got it!

FYI I also find them uncomfortable hot and my glasses steam up and fall off. I can’t understand people properly in them either but I’m not a selfish entitled person so I wear one.

I’ve noticed more people wearing masks but also more people wearing them not covering their nose or on their chin. It seemed pretty obvious to me how to wear a mask but must not be to most people so hopefully an information campaign will be rolled out on it.

'How lovely for you to send your daughter to wherever you need just because you can't be bothered to wear a face covering hmm I'm sure she appreciates being an assistant to you'

Maybe she does! Children and young people often enjoy an opportunity to feel helpful, especially if it's outside of the house! (shopping is usually a much more popular job than dishwashing or dusting) and if it's not 'do this, do that' every five minutes. An occasional trip to pick up something from the shop is not the same thing as sending your kids down the mines!

It is certainly bringing out the worst in a lot of people. Hopefully it will all be over reasonably soon and we can start spreading peace and love again rather than vitriol and covid 19.

I'm not really anti mask, I just can't see the point when most people are using them wrong or the wrong ones (sometimes both). WHO can say whatever they want, but I can't believe that a mask I make at home from an old t-shirt provides enough protection to stop me transmitting anything to other people. It's not the right material. Plus people still don't wash their hands right, the hand sanitiser isn't going to get rid of every germ you've managed to collect since leaving home to getting yo the shops (you don't want to know how many germs are on your keys and phone alone). They touch their faces, adjust their masks constantly, take them off to talk or sneeze or cough... How is any of that helpful?

I wear one because I'm made to. I don't believe it's protecting me or anyone around me. I'm still doing what I normally do, washing my hands thoroughly when home and before eating/preparing food. That's what matters the most really.

@NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite

I'm in favour of people wearing masks. I'm not an anti-vaxxer although I am in favour of people having the right to individual vaccines rather than a vaccine against multiple diseases. I do believe that, in some people, tbeir systems can be overwhelmed by the multiple vaccines so they should have the choice to have individual vaccines. I think it is better to do that than have none at all.

The reasons why individual vaccines are not used any more is because they are no longer licensed. The multiple vaccines are better and safer. You might think you are being oh so reasonable but you are effectively an anti-vaxxer if you don't agree with multi-vaccines. And you certainly know nothing about the immune system if you think it can be 'overwhelmed' by 5 attenuated viruses. Trust me, I'm a scientist.

I'm not wearing a mask because if it's not safe to go into a shop without a mask it's still not safe with a bit of patterned cotton from Etsy in front of your mouth and nose. Cotton masks are a panacea to make people feel better about going into shops, nothing more. I survived without the High Street for 3 months, I don't need to go now if I'm being made to wear something uncomfortable that won't protect me.

Most "mask avoiders" are more: "I'll wear a mask where required, I'll just do less "fun" shopping as it won't be fun."

This seems to be the most sensible reply on the whole thread

@PurpleDaisies

Mask wearers (usually wearing them incorrectly) are the worst for totally ignoring social distancing.

agreed

and I find them to be totally virtue signalling with no understanding of why anyone would think differently from them and non critical thinkers.

So to summarise your not anti mask you’re just selfish and don’t care about other people only yourself. Got it!

This basically can sum up all those who refuse to wear them for reasons that aren't medical exemptions

@KeepingPlain the aim of mask if you keep you from expelling droplets that may contain COVID 19 from your mouth and nose. It’s very simple to see if your mask is doing this. Light a match and try blow it out with your mask on. If you can’t then it’s working and therefore is protecting others so there is a very important point of wearing it. If not and you have mad if yourself add another layer of material or purchase a mask.

@CountFosco I bought one of my masks from Etsy and I can’t blow out a match with it so it does protect others. The point of the mask is not to protect you it’s to protect others. They wear a mask to protect you (or don’t because they don’t waaaant to stamps feet ) ( excluding those with a genuine medical reason not to)

@Thereisalight7

I get what the point is, I just know that most masks people are wearing are not up to standard. What's the point when most people aren't protected from spreading anything? It is basically an exercise to make everyone feel better, but it's not going to stop anything. I don't mind wearing one, like I say I do it because I'm made to, but I don't believe at all that it's preventing the spread. You're only 'protecting' people in shops, and that's debatable anyway. Nothing is being done in people's homes, and there you're in closer contact with people and more likely to catch something. This is just an exercise to make people feel safe, nothing more.

@HandsOffMyRights

I was in a supermarket yesterday and noticed that mask wearing had given many of the shoppers a magical confidence to lean over me, walk right behind me, and generally disregard any need for social distancing.

That's been my experience to date as well.

That said, went shopping today (face coverings are mandatory here) and people were socially distancing. But it was quiet, as more and more people are back to work.

I’m afraid research indicates you are incorrect. There is a benefit to a mask, any mask over no mask.

See below summary of a published (and therefore peer reviewed) paper.

Testing the efficacy of homemade masks: would they protect in an influenza pandemic?

Anna Davies, Katy-Anne Thompson, Karthika Giri, George Kafatos, Jimmy Walker, Allan Bennett
Disaster medicine and public health preparedness 7 (4), 413-418, 2013
Objective
This study examined homemade masks as an alternative to commercial face masks.
Methods
Several household materials were evaluated for the capacity to block bacterial and viral aerosols. Twenty-one healthy volunteers made their own face masks from cotton t-shirts. The number of microorganisms isolated from coughs of healthy volunteers wearing their homemade mask, a surgical mask, or no mask was compared using several air-sampling techniques.
Results
The median-fit factor of the homemade masks was one-half that of the surgical masks.

Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers

although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask.
Conclusion
Our findings suggest that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection.