Friend and children still in complete lockdown

[madbirdlady22]

I am getting quite worried about a friend of mine, and wondered if there is something I can or should be doing do to help her.

Since mid March she has been in lockdown with her dh and children, and along the same lines as everyone else stayed in. Back then she would not even take the children for a walk, they stayed at home 247 with shopping delivered. I asked her why not go for a walk, but she said there was no need as they have a garden.

Now we are in mid July, and the children have still not been out. They decided against going back to school in June, and they have not been out anywhere at all since March. I am feeling quite worried now, not just for her, but for the children as well (they are ages 7 and 4) she has not seen any friends or been out of the house at all since the lockdown began.

I suggested the park, she said it was too busy, I mentioned going to the gardens nearby for a picnic with her dc, and she said they couldn't get a ticket, but I know it is possible to get tickets easily. She lives an hour and a half away, so I can't just pop in and check on her, and I feel I should respect her wishes.

She is now saying she doesn't think the children will go back to school in September after all. I am getting very worried about her.

I think/thought her MH is fine, her dh has PTSD at the moment. I am feeling concerned, she has no family nearby and no other support from what I can gather.

They spend all day every day in the house or in the garden.
They are not shielding, are not vulnerable at all and they are all perfectly healthy.

Should I say something? Are other people also doing this? Should I just leave them to it? She has been a friend for 35 years plus and we grew up together.

I imagine anyone reading this thread might be shocked actually, at the number of healthy people still essentially in lockdown.

I wonder if the government and schools are aware of just how big a problem this could be.

It could be further compounded by a second wave, if we have one.

lockdown

Your children are essentially locked up if they are not allowed out. You may not like the term, but it is an accurate one.

If they ask to go out will you say yes?

@MMN123

Also she lives 1.5 hours away. Just because she says they haven't gone out, doesn't mean they haven't. I've told people I'm staying in - actually we are having lovely days out but I can't tell them that because then they will want to join us. So I don't tell them.

This Also op are you someone who has been working through lockdown?. Maybe she sees you as a higher risk and doesn't want to meet for that reason

[quote CurlyhairedAssassin]@Badbadbunny "No one in real life knows OH has cancer, not even our son." What about his employer, assuming he works? Hasn't he had to disclose to them? I don't know how it works everywhere but for my place of employment those shielding had to send a copy of their shielding letter into work. Both my parents are in the extremely clinically vulnerable category but I haven't asked to see what their letter actually says so don't know whether it states their condition? In the case of sickness absence youre not allowed to keep your medical condition secret if you want to get your sickness pay, I don't think.[/quote]
No, the shielding letter doesn't disclose your reason for shielding. It simply says you have been identified as extremely clinically vulnerable and are advised to shield and then explains in detail what that means.

I'm shielding. I would be furious if a friend took it up themselves to turn up at my door demanding a socially distanced chat, particularly one who's been going here, there and everywhere and taking their children for play dates.

Op, you really don't know this family's circumstances. Maybe one of them is shielding and they don't want to tell you? Maybe they are going out a bit but don't want to meet with you if you've been socialising more widely?

I think you're wrong to want to.impose your way on your friend. Just keep talking to her and see how this progresses.

formerbabe, I have an A-level in statistics thanks. I understand perfectly well. I do drive. I do go on planes although wouldn’t go on public transport at the moment.

However I also feel that we don’t have enough information about this virus. And that it’s Russian Roulette. I’m not playing that game with my children’s health.

I know someone young, in formerly good health, who has been in icu with this virus and is still very ill months later. There are possibly lifelong consequences to contracting it and in any case I don’t want my children to contract a life threatening illness. They may have mild symptoms, or they may be critically ill. I’m not yet happy to take that chance and I don’t believe we know enough yet to properly assess risk.

The BLM protests and large gatherings have been more isolated events. Very different from the day in day out mixing of people. I want to see what happens when schools reopen and people start going to restaurants etc before I decide it’s safe. I also want to take it more gradually. Straight back into full time school without distancing isn’t ok with me.

My dd is coping well at home, and the thought of going anywhere is making her anxious

The latter part of that would worry me.

We have been working from home. She may see us as higher risk because we are seeing friends and family outside in a socially distance way and going out for the day etc. Basically anyone doing anything is higher risk than her, because she isn't even going out for a walk.

My friend is not a nomadic introvert roaming the lands with sheep, she is/was an outgoing, friendly, intelligent and funny person that lives in a normal road here in the UK. Her children attended school, and have been raised in a similar way to most children here in the UK, not as nomads.
So the ideacarpetthat the children will automatically cope with essentially becoming nomadic, living in fear and losing all contact with their friends, school, hobbies and life overnight has not been tested or proved.

You said children had never been separated from other children like this ever in the course of human history, which is not true at all . That's what I was replying to.
Do you know for a fact that your friends's children have not had any contact with anyone and that the children are actually living in fear? If you believe that the children are being harmed you should contact social services.

At what point will you see that it is safe lockdown? As restaurants have been open for a few weeks now, and pubs too. Many schools have been operating normally for months. At what point will you say it is fine to go out and see friends, and go and sit on a beach/park?

*Your children are essentially locked up if they are not allowed out. You may not like the term, but it is an accurate one.

If they ask to go out will you say yes?*

It’s it accurate at all.
If they ask to go out, it will totally depend on the situation and the risk involved and whether I can trust the others involved to socially distance. I’ll assess it at the time.

Same as if my dc asked to go somewhere I wasn’t happy with in normal times I would say no, but they wouldn’t be locked up 🙄

We make decisions for our children all the time. It could equally be said that you’re putting your children and others at unnecessary risk and wilfully exposing them to the virus. It just depends how you choose to view it.

I think that there are going to be a lot of people who are going to have very distorted risk analysis abilities with this going forward.

Which will cause significant mental health issues which are far worse than the risks associated with the virus.

I have a friend who has gone nuts about it - totally healthy early 40s - won't leave the house.

I think you need to cut her some slack. It's her choice to stay in lockdown and you need to butt out, quite frankly. If you press her to change, she may just cut you off. I understand your concern, but the best thing you can do is keep talking to her. In the worst-case scenario, you may be her lifeline.

I'm also still in lockdown. Even though I have underlying conditions that make me vulnerable, I'm also getting pressure from 'friends' that I'm overreacting. It's as if some people need everyone else to come out to justify that they have. Don't be that person.

I believe she is very afraid and this comes through in all of her messages, so I find it hard to imagine the children have not picked up on it carpet Certainly most British children are raised with other children and have no experience of being alone before now.

Do I think it is harmful to her children? Yes potentially I do.

My question to you is why don't you think it is harmful to take a child away from everyone and everything he/she knows? It must feel like a lifetime to them given their age.

and in any case I don’t want my children to contract a life threatening illness

What like chicken pox? Children can die from that. Catching chicken pox at nursery or school is seen as entirely normal and unavoidable. We don't remove our children from school if a child in their class has it do we?

We’re in Wales OP where restaurants and pubs are only just starting to open their outdoor areas this week.

The difference in cases between England and Wales suggests to me that it isn’t especially safe.

Parks are still closed here as are the car parks for beaches.
We do go to beaches but fairly quiet ones where distancing is possible.
Meeting friends is academic because none of my friends are happy to meet yet, they’re all of the not yet leaving the garden frame of mind whereas I am going for walks and into the supermarket.

Tbh I am torn over this. I will start by saying that I have been shielding and haven’t left my house since March....

On the one hand there is going to have to come a point where we all need to return to some kind of normality, even the shielded, because the likelihood is that COVID is going to be around for a while, and it is not realistic to take yourself out of circulation forever. Besides which it’s all very well wanting to protect your life, but what kind of life is it if you’re not actually living it.

On the other side, I am amazed at how quickly living like this has become the norm. As human beings we do actually adapt to situations I quickly, and when something becomes the norm it’s easy to just stay there. Iyswim.

In terms of the government, they’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. If the government started insisting that people go out they will be criticised for it, in fact they are being criticised for saying that children attending school from September will be mandatory, added to which insisting people go out is what leads to the extreme scenes we see on the beaches etc...

But telling people not to go out just leaves those who still don’t want to feeling that they’re right in doing so and their worries are justified.

It’s possible that, having stayed home for all this time, she just doesn’t know how to go out any more. It’s a bit like any situation, the first time is daunting, but you have to persevere to return back to a place where it becomes normal.

I have a serious heart condition and I practically didn’t leave my house for three years. Last year I had surgery, and the first time I went into a supermarket the experience was completely overwhelming, despite the fact that prior to my illness I was always out and about everywhere. I just had to stick with it, but it would have been so easy to go back home and stay there.

It might be worth having a conversation with her and just ask if she’s afraid of going out because it’s been so long. If she then comes out with some kind of conspiracy then that’s one thing, but if she says that actually this has just become normal then you could encourage her to say, go for a walk round the block first and then take it from there...

If they ask to go out, it will totally depend on the situation and the risk involved and whether I can trust the others involved to socially distance. I’ll assess it at the time

So they want to see their friends for a socially distanced picnic outside, are you going to say yes lockdown?

I am only asking because I am wondering what you consider to be high risk.

My question to you is why don't you think it is harmful to take a child away from everyone and everything he/she knows? It must feel like a lifetime to them given their age.

Except they’re not removed from everything and everyone they know. They’re with their family in their own familiar home. The most important thing for a child is the insistence of a primary carer and they have that.

They can maintain relationships with people outside the family in other ways.

Ideally they would be seeing and playing with friends but there are other advantages to this time imo.

@madbirdlady22

At what point will you see that it is safe lockdown? As restaurants have been open for a few weeks now, and pubs too. Many schools have been operating normally for months. At what point will you say it is fine to go out and see friends, and go and sit on a beach/park?

Why are you so bothered about what other people are doing?

Arguably, those of us not going out and not socialising are less of a danger to society than people who are mixing with other groups, having play dates, going to pubs and restaurants so maybe we should be goading you to justify why you are living the way you are op?

Why not do you and leave others alone? This is just feeling like an excuse now for you to have a dog at people living more cautiously than you are.

We are in a pandemic so they're right to be cautious.

Not going outdoors for exercise in months is concerning however, garden or not.

So they want to see their friends for a socially distanced picnic outside, are you going to say yes lockdown?

Probably a yes from me, depending on location of picnic, who is present and where those people have been.

In a quiet place with friends who are sensible and can be trusted to distance, yes.

It's as if some people need everyone else to come out to justify that they have. Don't be that person

I started this thread because I am not that person. I hold my friend in the highest regard, and I am looking advice as to whether it would be right to ask her straight about it/go and see her/ or other ideas. I have read each post carefully, and many sound just like her. It has been really helpful to see a different point of view, and I am thankful for the posts.

I am not exactly reassured by the numbers of people feeling the same way, because I am sitting here wondering what is going to happen in September and over the winter. Could some children potentially spending years at home not months? What are the schools doing about safe guarding and ensuring that all of the children are safe and well? I have more questions than answers to be honest.

Apparently 6 children in the UK have died from coronavirus. Tragic for those families obviously but not a high enough number for me to sacrifice my children's mental health by keeping them under house arrest.

That sounds worrying, I don’t think your concern is misplaced. It will take baby steps to get back to any sort of normal if general life is too scary right now

I started this thread because I am not that person.

You are coming across as that person. You're picking people apart and goading them.into having to justify themselves to you.

How would you feel if we critiqued what you've been doing?